toldailytopic: Many paths to God? Or just one?

[Buzzword]

Matthew 7:8
"For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

They may not be asking the same questions you asked.
They may not be seeking the exact same thing you were.
They may be knocking on the door in the dark alleyway rather than the one in the brightly lit church.

But if they are asking, seeking, or knocking, He will make Himself known to them.

And if in your ignorance you make them stop asking, seeking, or knocking, it would be better if a large millstone were hung around your neck and you were drowned in the depths of the sea.
(Matthew 18:6)

 

[john w]

The law of non contradiction:the argument that there are "Many paths to God," "All roads lead to the same destination", that all "religions"are equally true(Pluralism) is a self-refuting argument-it self-destructs, and here is why: If all "religions" are true, then Christianity is true. But part of the doctrine, "truth", of the Christian faith is that all other religions are false, i.e., "...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me"(John 14:6), "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved"(Acts 4:12)-the exclusivity of Christianity. Either Christianity is true and others are false, or some other "religion"s true and Christianity is false. Logically, either way, all "religions" cannot be true. Thus, the Holy Bible's claim to be the only revelation from the LORD God, and of the LORD God, to mankind requires that all other religion's "scripture" be false.

End of thread.

 

[Yazichestvo]

The law of non contradiction:the argument that there are "Many paths to God," "All roads lead to the same destination", that all "religions"are equally true(Pluralism) is a self-refuting argument-it self-destructs, and here is why: If all "religions" are true, then Christianity is true. But part of the doctrine, "truth", of the Christian faith is that all other religions are false, i.e., "...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me"(John 14:6), "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved"(Acts 4:12)-the exclusivity of Christianity. Either Christianity is true and others are false, or some other "religion"s true and Christianity is false. Logically, either way, all "religions" cannot be true. Thus, the Holy Bible's claim to be the only revelation from the LORD God, and of the LORD God, to mankind requires that all other religion's "scripture" be false.

End of thread.

Definitely worth pointing out to all of those who try to take that route. I myself feel a bit of irritation when some people talk about one amorphous God with a hundred different faces and religions.

From a pagan perspective though, the Christ-deity and Abrahamic God can both exist as actual deities, just jealous ones. Or, you might take the argument that these faiths are distorted somehow, but still fundamentally connect their worshipers to some divinity. The same may be said by some Christians about other religions. Abrahamic monotheism is unique in that it leaves very little room for agreement with other faiths, but many still allow for other religions having some spiritual truth in them despite being misguided on some accounts.

 

[Refractive]

The law of non contradiction:the argument that there are "Many paths to God," "All roads lead to the same destination", that all "religions"are equally true(Pluralism) is a self-refuting argument-it self-destructs, and here is why: If all "religions" are true, then Christianity is true. But part of the doctrine, "truth", of the Christian faith is that all other religions are false, i.e., "...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me"(John 14:6), "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved"(Acts 4:12)-the exclusivity of Christianity. Either Christianity is true and others are false, or some other "religion"s true and Christianity is false. Logically, either way, all "religions" cannot be true. Thus, the Holy Bible's claim to be the only revelation from the LORD God, and of the LORD God, to mankind requires that all other religion's "scripture" be false.

End of thread.

A wise person I knew used to say: "If you haven't found the paradox, you haven't seen the Truth." So, you are not correct IMO, and here's why:

"...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me"

This is, of course, correct. Jesus is God, He is Love and Truth and Light. Now, let's say you never heard of Jesus, but you seek Love and Truth and Light. Then, you seek Jesus. So maybe you don't know that, so what? You don't have to, He does.

See, the trick to it is: Jesus actually exists and is our mediator between humanity and God the Father. And we do and will "go by Him" to get to the Beatific Vision or Heaven or whatever we call that perfect union in Eternal Joy.

There are going to be a lot of atheists in line in front of a lot of Christians and everyone else all mixed in there. They'll all go by Jesus.

Live in Love, practice charity, long for true Justice and show mercy.

/thread

 

[Sherman]

This verse puts it all in a nutshell--->John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Jesus is the only path to God. This universalism all roads business is that smelly stuff you find out in the cow pasture.:cow: Don't step in it. I don't think Lysol will get the stink off.

 

[chrysostom]

I think there is more than one
but
this may be the only one

love your neighbor

 

[freelight]

Adventures in non-duality.......

Adventures in non-duality.......

Where do we find God? In the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is within. Therefore strictly speaking there are no paths to God, for God is not a remote being Who is somewhere else.

Indeed,...for where 'God' is omni-present.... there is no 'getting' to...or even moving away from 'God', in reality. There is no getting 'God'....or 'away' from 'God'. Truth or Reality is pathless. - only to a sensing-mind perceiving thru the relativity-distortion of space and time....is there there what appears to be 'seperation', 'space', 'time', 'distance', 'lack', etc. In the omnipresence of 'God'.....All forever is.

Once this is understood,....the second question is answered upon the existential premise of the nature of 'God' itself, which is eternally One (being One without a second). Since God is One...there is always forever...only One Presence, One Spirit, One Consciousness, One Life, One Being, One Infinity....and so on. 'Paths' only exist where 'relativity' (space/time perception) appears, where many trails are perceived to exist...leading to the mountain top. - back to space/time perception. -humanity has many religious traditions/cult-ures/schools of thought....on 'God' and the assumed 'return path home'. But did man ever leave 'God'? and is such only the myth that religions attempt to explain and provide a remedy for? Such is the case, more or less...as each system of theology/philosophy presents their own story, concepts, terms, definitions and assumptions. These viewpoints exist in space/time relativity and conceptions of mind,...yet forever there is always already the One Infinite Presence,...fully alive and conscious unto Itself,...as All that Is. I Am that.

Again,...there is no getting 'God' or away from 'God', but only thru the 'lens' of our space/time perception. But such appears to be what this dimensional life is all about,...exploring all points of view...until we see out from the view of the Infinite "I" Itself.....and comprehend all, by not only knowing truth...but being It...since 'God' is really all there is, anyways



pj

 

[Refractive]

I really don't think the question is about the location of God. That's a fun discussion, but it's not useful for people who are far from - whether they conceive of themselves as separate from or whether they are, in being, not congruous with -

What is also true, is that these bodies will be left behind and persons will still have relative distance from the Light. As Eternity is nonlocal, that distance is not measured in space, but in holiness.

While some find their journey to God was an interior one, that's not very useful to others who are on the same path but doing it a different way.

 

[Refractive]

I think there is more than one
but
this may be the only one

love your neighbor

this^^^

 

[freelight]

The never ending story.......

The never ending story.......

The law of non contradiction:the argument that there are "Many paths to God," "All roads lead to the same destination", that all "religions"are equally true(Pluralism) is a self-refuting argument-it self-destructs,

The thread-title is more subtle, and doesnt have to be interpreted as 'all paths lead to the same destination', or that 'all religions are equally true (pluralism). There can still be many paths, methodologies, points of view, approaches, mediums...thru which 'God' can be 'related'.

and here is why: If all "religions" are true, then Christianity is true. But part of the doctrine, "truth", of the Christian faith is that all other religions are false, i.e., "...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me"(John 14:6), "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved"(Acts 4:12)-the exclusivity of Christianity.

I dont see Christianity as necessarily claiming to be 'exclusive', but only in the context of its own tradition and historical nuance. 'Christ' can also be interpreted as the light within all sentient beings, the inner 'logos' that guides and enlightens all men (not just those associated with a christian denomination or its 'pop-theology').

Either Christianity is true and others are false, or some other "religion"s true and Christianity is false.

I dont see why it has to be 'black' or 'white'.

Logically, either way, all "religions" cannot be true.

Assuming anyone made the claim.

Since 'truth' is universal, and 'God' is universal reality, the source, substance and only divine value existing....in as much as a religious tradition serves as an instrument of 'God' having spiritual truth, religious values and principles....it may serve truth's cause.

Thus, the Holy Bible's claim to be the only revelation from the LORD God, and of the LORD God, to mankind requires that all other religion's "scripture" be false.

I dont see why this needs to be 'assumed'....except by an exclusivist. I could just as well claim that for the Vedas, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita and other Indian 'scriptures',...as well as other traditions, plus many modern day writings claiming to be inspired or channeled from higher sources. 'God' is an Infinite Spirit-Presence,...and could not be limited by any one religious cult or tradition.

Try compartmentalizing, standardizing, measuring, setting bounderies for that which is without dimension, indefinite, immeasurable, unbounded and eternally free. In the Light of the Infinite One....presuming that your own conception of 'God' is the only one, is an extraordinary claim. One may belong to and faithfully devote themselves to any one religious tradition, of course. But 'God' is always greater, and is all-inclusive, universal, infinite, all-encompassing, all-pervading. The Infinite One Existence or Life is Universal to all (call it 'God' if you like).

End of thread.

Ya right. Like saying that all the time, makes it so

Creative dialogue about the Infinite, never ends

Cues in for a music interlude of 'Never ending Story' by Limahl - gotta love it!


paulie

 

[Refractive]

I dont see Christianity as necessarily claiming to be 'exclusive', but only in the context of its own tradition and historical nuance. 'Christ' can also be interpreted as the light within all sentient beings, the inner 'logos' that guides and enlightens all men .. .

That's what the Church says. JPII said it pretty specifically, but I like this to share here because it's now a half century old:

DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965



1. In our time, when day by day mankind is being drawn closer together, and the ties between different peoples are becoming stronger, the Church examines more closely her relationship to non-Christian religions. In her task of promoting unity and love among men, indeed among nations, she considers above all in this declaration what men have in common and what draws them to fellowship.

One is the community of all peoples, one their origin, for God made the whole human race to live over the face of the earth.(1) One also is their final goal, God. His providence, His manifestations of goodness, His saving design extend to all men,(2) until that time when the elect will be united in the Holy City, the city ablaze with the glory of God, where the nations will walk in His light.(3)

Men expect from the various religions answers to the unsolved riddles of the human condition, which today, even as in former times, deeply stir the hearts of men: What is man? What is the meaning, the aim of our life? What is moral good, what sin? Whence suffering and what purpose does it serve? Which is the road to true happiness? What are death, judgment and retribution after death? What, finally, is that ultimate inexpressible mystery which encompasses our existence: whence do we come, and where are we going?

2. From ancient times down to the present, there is found among various peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things and over the events of human history; at times some indeed have come to the recognition of a Supreme Being, or even of a Father. This perception and recognition penetrates their lives with a profound religious sense.

john w said:

Thus, the Holy Bible's claim to be the only revelation from the LORD God, and of the LORD God, to mankind requires that all other religion's "scripture" be false.

There's no claim like that in Scripture at all. How could there be? Every book was completed pretty much independently long before anyone put them together as Canon. So nothing in Scripture can address anything about the set of books that Scripture comprises.

I think some people say this, but the Bible doesn't.

 

[some other dude]

All paths lead to God. Only one has a happy ending. The broad path of destruction leads to God.

Oooh good answer.

Everyone will stand before God, small and great.

Revelation 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Only those who accept Christ as their savior will walk the narrow path. :thumb:

 

[some other dude]

I think there is more than one
but
this may be the only one

love your neighbor

this^^^

What if your neighbor is an unrepentant child molester and murderer? :idunno:

 

[john w]

The thread-title is more subtle, and doesnt have to be interpreted as 'all paths lead to the same destination', or that 'all religions are equally true (pluralism). There can still be many paths, methodologies, points of view, approaches, mediums...thru which 'God' can be 'related'.




I dont see Christianity as necessarily claiming to be 'exclusive', but only in the context of its own tradition and historical nuance. 'Christ' can also be interpreted as the light within all sentient beings, the inner 'logos' that guides and enlightens all men (not just those associated with a christian denomination or its 'pop-theology').



I dont see why it has to be 'black' or 'white'.



Assuming anyone made the claim.

Since 'truth' is universal, and 'God' is universal reality, the source, substance and only divine value existing....in as much as a religious tradition serves as an instrument of 'God' having spiritual truth, religious values and principles....it may serve truth's cause.



I dont see why this needs to be 'assumed'....except by an exclusivist. I could just as well claim that for the Vedas, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita and other Indian 'scriptures',...as well as other traditions, plus many modern day writings claiming to be inspired or channeled from higher sources. 'God' is an Infinite Spirit-Presence,...and could not be limited by any one religious cult or tradition.

Try compartmentalizing, standardizing, measuring, setting bounderies for that which is without dimension, indefinite, immeasurable, unbounded and eternally free. In the Light of the Infinite One....presuming that your own conception of 'God' is the only one, is an extraordinary claim. One may belong to and faithfully devote themselves to any one religious tradition, of course. But 'God' is always greater, and is all-inclusive, universal, infinite, all-encompassing, all-pervading. The Infinite One Existence or Life is Universal to all (call it 'God' if you like).



Ya right. Like saying that all the time, makes it so

Creative dialogue about the Infinite, never ends

Cues in for a music interlude of 'Never ending Story' by Limahl - gotta love it!


paulie

1.Nope-law of non contradiction.

2."I dont see Christianity as necessarily claiming to be 'exclusive', but only in the context of its own tradition and historical nuance"

No reasonable person(Is. 1:18), "reasonably prudent person"(Bus. Law A), if he/she read and surveyed the book, can draw that conclusion.


3. "dont see why this needs to be 'assumed'....except by an exclusivist. I could just as well claim that for the Vedas, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita and other Indian 'scriptures',...as well as other traditions, plus many modern day writings claiming to be inspired or channeled from higher sources. 'God' is an Infinite Spirit-Presence,...and could not be limited by any one religious cult or tradition. "

-That is the point-exclusivity, the law of non contradiction; One may be true, or the other may be true, but both cannot be true.

As an aside, many will argue that the Holy Bible is not the only book, or exclusive book, given by inspiration by the LORD God-for eg., the Koran, the Book of Mormon, the Vedas, and many more claim to come from God. Does the fact that Christianity teaches that other books are false cast doubt on the Holy Bible as well? That is, if so many others are wrong, why not the Bible?

Answer: Whether other "scriptures" of other "religions" are true or false has no bearing on the Bible's infallibility or lack thereof. One apologist uses the following example: If 10/11 contestants failed to win a race, this can hardly be a plausible argument that therefore no one could have won. If there is counterfeit money circulating abundantly does not mandate that "genuine" money does not exist! In fact, it argues for its existence, otherwise counterfeiting would have no point/purpose. The Bible must be examined on it's own merits based on evidence.

 

[john w]

That's what the Church says. JPII said it pretty specifically, but I like this to share here because it's now a half century old:



john w said:

There's no claim like that in Scripture at all. How could there be? Every book was completed pretty much independently long before anyone put them together as Canon. So nothing in Scripture can address anything about the set of books that Scripture comprises.

I think some people say this, but the Bible doesn't.

"Thus, the Holy Bible's claim to be the only revelation from the LORD God, and of the LORD God, to mankind requires that all other religion's "scripture" be false. "-John W


"There's no claim like that in Scripture at all. How could there be? Every book was completed pretty much independently long before anyone put them together as Canon. So nothing in Scripture can address anything about the set of books that Scripture comprises."- Refractive

You made that up. Genesis-Revelation:One God. Law of non contradiction. Exclusivity.

The book is full of traps to the scorners.

What scripture says, the LORD God says:

Exodus 9:
"13And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.

14For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

15For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.

16And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.


"For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth." Romans 9:17

Scripture had not even been written yet, and yet the book testifies that "the scripture saith unto Pharaoh." The book does not distinguish-"what the scripture saith," the LORD saith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkM0NT4YMlo


End of thread.

 

[john w]

When we speak of the "word", we can never separate the living word, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the written word, the scripture of truth. The Lord Jesus Christ, the living word, reveals the invisible God(Jn. 1:18). It is not that we have to explain the Lord Jesus Christ, but that His mission is to explain God to us. He interprets the Father, and we are to believe Him. Thus, the Lord Jesus Christ is called "The word of God" because He makes known, reveals, and explains the Father. And this is why the Scriptures are called "the word of God", because they make known the Father and the Son, by the Holy Spirit, the author of the word.

The Lord Jesus Christ is "the way" to the Father(Jn. 14). He makes known God to us in all His attributes, will, and words, "For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me", "I have given them thy word","Thy word is truth"(Jn. 17:8,14,17)-it is always "THY Word".

In like manner, the written word, the scripture, is given in order to interpret, and to testify of the Lord Jesus Christ. And this is why the Lord Jesus Christ is the one great subject of the word.

This is why the Holy Spirit is the interpreter of both. The Holy Spirit's mission is to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ(Jn. 16:14). He receives and shows the things of Christ. But He shows them in the written word(1 Cor. 2:9-14). And this is why it must be He and He alone who enables us to "Preach the word"(2 Tim. 4:2).

Thus, we have the word in 3 manifestations:
The incarnate word
The written word
The preached word


There is no other. The Lord Jesus Christ reveals the Father. The scripture reveals the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit reveals both in the written, and preached word(1 Cor. 12:7,8).

End of thread again.

 

[Refractive]

What if your neighbor is an unrepentant child molester and murderer? :idunno:

What's that got to do with you and how you behave?

 

[some other dude]

What's that got to do with you and how you behave?

Does Jesus instruct us to love an unrepentant child molester and murderer? :idunno:

 

[Refractive]

"Thus, the Holy Bible's claim to be the only revelation from the LORD God, and of the LORD God, to mankind requires that all other religion's "scripture" be false. "-John W


"There's no claim like that in Scripture at all. How could there be? Every book was completed pretty much independently long before anyone put them together as Canon. So nothing in Scripture can address anything about the set of books that Scripture comprises."- Refractive

You made that up. Genesis-Revelation:One God. Law of non contradiction. Exclusivity.

Well, John, I don't believe in exclusivity. I don't believe my Lord Jesus Christ does either, or He wouldn't have said that when He is raised up He will draw everyone to Himself.

He didn't say they'd all join a church or read a book, He just said He would draw them to Him. Many rooms in His Father's house He said.

May God bless you abundantly.

 

[freelight]

All in this dimension of existence is 'relative'........

All in this dimension of existence is 'relative'........

3. "dont see why this needs to be 'assumed'....except by an exclusivist. I could just as well claim that for the Vedas, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita and other Indian 'scriptures',...as well as other traditions, plus many modern day writings claiming to be inspired or channeled from higher sources. 'God' is an Infinite Spirit-Presence,...and could not be limited by any one religious cult or tradition. "

-That is the point-exclusivity, the law of non contradiction; One may be true, or the other may be true, but both cannot be true.

That depends on how one proves or defines what is 'true'. Many religious traditions espouse qualities and practices that can be perceived as 'good', 'true', 'praiseworthy', having true value.

As an aside, many will argue that the Holy Bible is not the only book, or exclusive book, given by inspiration by the LORD God-for eg., the Koran, the Book of Mormon, the Vedas, and many more claim to come from God. Does the fact that Christianity teaches that other books are false cast doubt on the Holy Bible as well? That is, if so many others are wrong, why not the Bible?

Answer: Whether other "scriptures" of other "religions" are true or false has no bearing on the Bible's infallibility or lack thereof. One apologist uses the following example: If 10/11 contestants failed to win a race, this can hardly be a plausible argument that therefore no one could have won. If there is counterfeit money circulating abundantly does not mandate that "genuine" money does not exist! In fact, it argues for its existence, otherwise counterfeiting would have no point/purpose. The Bible must be examined on it's own merits based on evidence.

Your the one 'assuming' the Bible somehow teaches that all other religious writings or holy books are false, and it alone is truth - this appears to be a 'preconceived notion'. Also the issue of the Bible being 'infallible' is another 'assumption'.

Using the counterfeit money example really doesnt hold, unless you can show where other religious traditions and teachings are attempting to 'imitate' the Bible or whatever teachings your refering to. (Some principles actually predate certain parts of the Bible, and the New Testament altogether). Just like you state the Bible stands on its own merit based on 'evidence' (what qualification or standard of 'evidence'?), other traditions value and esteem their inspired writings as well, as from 'God' (divine source).

There is only One Supreme Being.

God is One. All are relating to God, yet some systems or schools may relate better than others. - dont forget individuals gravitate towards systems they are familiar with or drawn to, at any point in time (situation, influence, environment, context). If you were born into another culture or religious tradition, you might have a very different 'point of view' than you do now. Would'nt you say that is possible and logical granting 'situational influence' ? Look on the planet now,..there are thousands/millions of different persons born into different situations/cultures/religions...and there are also many seekers who for whatever reason change their religious affiliations at a certain point in their lives. Just some more food for thought


pj