toldailytopic: In principle, are laws that regulate abortion an effective strategy to

[JoeyArnold]

Ideal universe/best situation arguments using countfactuals are always full of holes, aren't they! I guess I just want love to win, and if they could see the love that someone else would be willing to give to that which they are, literally, throwing away, then maybe everyone would be changed by it! We (my wife and I, my church) help out with a Christian adoption group that allows the mother to continue to have contact for just as long as she wants to, for just that reason. But, as you say, there will always be those that will not participate. I guess, we just try to get everyone of them that will. What else are we here for?

On the friendship level:

If my friend was considering abortion, I'd suggest to her adoption. That would be my role. I couldn't exactly force her to do what I think is right. I wish I could, but never mind that.

And what is right and wrong, at this point, is almost besides the point.

But my role would be to present to her education, suggestion, persuasion, encouragement, friendly advice. That is what we should all do, even if we don't know the person. We should suggest to them adoption, or suggest that they do what is right, or what is best, or whatever. But that's only on the friendship level.

That is only what I'd do on the friendship level:

But on the governmental level, their role may be different. My role to the girl may only be one of mere friendship. But the government's role to the girl may be a God-like relationship, or some kind of parenting relationship. And parents often have to demand certain things, instead of merely suggesting things.

Parents may have to command that their kids to stay safe, eat healthy, don't do bad things, do their homework, adopt some manners, learn to grow up, have responsibilities, and what have you.

The government may have a similar role. Disobeying a parent should have consequences, discipline. Perhaps, they get grounded.

But disobeying the government may also need similar consequences, also. Maybe adoption should be outlawed. I guess there may be a reason why abortion may be a good thing. But never mind that for now, because the chances of that is very slim to none. Hypothetically, anythings possible. But never mind that.

But one problem about outlawing abortion is that it may just increase the size of our USA government.

Republican people, like me, may just be against the idea of increasing the size of government because it increases taxes or costs or things and it decreases rights, freedoms, flexibilities, capital opportunities, and what have you.

As a friend, I'd suggest adoption to my abortion-thinking friends. That's my role. But I just don't know what kind of role the government should have, exactly, in all of this.

 

[bybee]

True, but what do you think of laws like the one I referenced? I'm not asking about what strategies exist to combat abortion, I'm asking specifically about this one type of strategy: laws that regulate abortion.

What do you think about laws that regulate abortion?

I don't like "regulating" abortion. There is an implied idea that a regulated abortion is somehow legal.
The law must clearly state that abortion is illegal. Then, all possible assistance should be provided under the law to assist pregnant women in need.
The mandated three day waiting period with mandatory counseling is better than nothing because it will change some minds.
This is one of those dilemmas not easily resolved.

 

[JoeyArnold]

I don't like "regulating" abortion. There is an implied idea that a regulated abortion is somehow legal.
The law must clearly state that abortion is illegal. Then, all possible assistance should be provided under the law to assist pregnant women in need.
The mandated three day waiting period with mandatory counseling is better than nothing because it will change some minds.
This is one of those dilemmas not easily resolved.

But that implication is directly irrelevant.

Not to say that, indirectly, that the implication is meaningless. But I am trying to say that application is more important. In other words, you shouldn't let possible implications destroy you.

Regulated abortion may imply that abortion is legal, moral, right, ok to do sometimes. That may be bad. But we may have to choose between a lesser of two evils. Regulated abortion may do more good than bad.

Besides, God regulated people all the time in the Old Testament, and God still does. God allows us to do bad things. There are consequences. They are still wrong. But God helps us figure things out on our own.

How God interacts may imply all sorts things. But God still does them.

 

[Dena]

toldailytopic: In principle, are laws that regulate abortion an effective strategy to end abortion?

No. They don't address the reasons women have abortions in the first place.

 

[Rusha]

What's next? Regulating murder, rape, child molestation ...

Abortion should not be allowed ... however, until the time that abortion is no longer a *choice*, I am all for any regulations that would mandate that women wait in hopes that they would reconsider and recognize abortion for what it is: the intentional slaughter in innocent, unborn babies.

Women SHOULD be made to feel as ill at ease as possible prior to being allowed to end the life of the unborn baby they *chose* to create.

 

[Persephone66]

Such laws may stop a few abortions here and there.

 

[bybee]

But that implication is irrelevant.

Regulated abortion may imply that abortion is legal, moral, right, ok to do sometimes. That may be bad. But we may have to choose between a lesser of two evils. Regulated abortion may do more good than bad.

Besides, God regulated people all the time in the Old Testament, and God still does. God allows us to do bad things. There are consequences. They are still wrong. But God helps us figure things out on our own.

How God interacts may imply all sorts things. But God still does them.

An implication is rarely irrelevant.

 

[JoeyArnold]

An implication is rarely irrelevant.

An implication is a type of reputation. For example, you may read into what I write. You may think that it implies things that it doesn't imply. What matters more than a possible implication or opinion, is the overall path to improvement.

 

[mighty_duck]

I don't care where you sit on the for/against scale for abortion, I think everyone should at least be able to recognize the following as disingenuous:

"Defend the right of women to be informed and know the risk before they go forward," Novstrup said during the floor debate before the vote.​

It doesn't take three days, at government-designated reeducation camps to tell a woman all her options. This is about discouraging abortion by making it more inconvenient, and the people pushing it should at least own up to that.

I'm a staunch pro-choice supporter, but I don't think this bill is necessarily evil (even though I agree with your assessment of the Republican Senator's motive).

Abortion is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and waiting three days while hearing all the facts, both for and against, is a step in the right direction. That's the best way to ensure that the decision is an informed one and won't be regretted later. The three day waiting time is also reasonable, making sure the decision is made with a level head.

A better question is how do we make sure that counseling doesn't become a "government re-education" camp?
The mother should hear both sides of the story in a fair and balanced way.

 

[JoeyArnold]

I'm a staunch pro-choice supporter, but I don't think this bill is necessarily evil (even though I agree with your assessment of the Republican Senator's motive).

Abortion is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and waiting three days while hearing all the facts, both for and against, is a step in the right direction. That's the best way to ensure that the decision is an informed one and won't be regretted later. The three day waiting time is also reasonable, making sure the decision is made with a level head.

A better question is how do we make sure that counseling doesn't become a "government re-education" camp?
The mother should hear both sides of the story in a fair and balanced way.

For every reason that there is for abortion, there's an even better reason for adoption.

 

[mighty_duck]

For every reason that there is for abortion, there's an even better reason for adoption.

If your reasons are so convincing, why do you think there are so many abortions?

 

[Town Heretic]

If your reasons are so convincing, why do you think there are so many abortions?

For the same reason Vegas casinos keep pulling in money even though anyone with half a mind understands who tends to do most of the winning. People are frequently short sighted, ill considered, selfish, and unwilling to do the better thing with an easier answer before them.

 

[Nick M]

I used to think that something like "parental notification" was a good thing. But having read the other side of the debate, I realize it isn't and I now oppose all regulation of abortion. And I will only back personhood.

 

[JoeyArnold]

If your reasons are so convincing, why do you think there are so many abortions?

What? Why are there so many abortions? Is that what you're asking? Better yet, why are there so many murders, suicides, tragedies, felonies, crimes, problems, sin, destruction, robberies, adulteries, lies, etc?

 

[This Charming Manc]

It wont save all the babies, but it will save some.

I'm for it as a first step.

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for March 3rd, 2011 02:01 PM

toldailytopic: In principle, are laws that regulate abortion an effective strategy to end abortion?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

 

[chrysostom]

we have two new members on the supreme court
and
it is about time that they were tested

I don't think there is any doubt about the one
but
the other has some worried

 

[Totton Linnet]

May God have mercy

 

[Nick M]

May God have mercy

Those that don't stand up and admit their guilt by confessing 1 Corinthians 15 before men will recieve no mercy.

 

[Sherman]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for March 3rd, 2011 02:01 PM

toldailytopic: In principle, are laws that regulate abortion an effective strategy to end abortion?

Now it's my turn to weigh in on this. Regulate it, not. How about just making it illegal. Abortion regulating laws are just political doublespeak for 'let's keep it legal'. They are shysters selling something you think is going to get rid of abortion in is reality they are measures that save Planned UnParenthood's from having the boom of true justice lowered on it backside. It makes me think of the used car salesmen that sell you a car with wood shavings in the rear axle. You think are are getting something good when in reality you are getting a lemon.

 

[bybee]

An implication is a type of reputation. For example, you may read into what I write. You may think that it implies things that it doesn't imply. What matters more than a possible implication or opinion, is the overall path to improvement.

Why do I get the distinct impression that you are talking word salad?