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toldailytopic: Government run schools. What (if anything) would you do to change them
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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I was in favor of this idea for many years; however, they would need to pay the school taxes until age 65 to cover expenses.
I believed that those parents sending their children to private schools, funded exclusively by tuition should be exempt from all school taxes.
Now I will give you my past reasons. Public school taxes come primarily from property taxes. Those wealthy enough to send their children to exclusive prep-schools own higher value homes, thus pay a higher portion to educate middle-to-lower-class children. It is not simply a matter of selfishness, although that is an element, rather it is the desire to force public schools to conform to class specif structures, such as early testing and student tracking. The main idea was to maintain a working class.
Despite this not being the adapted future system, what took place was much more deleterious to common folk. Jobs that once paid a family wage became more rare and more working jobs being outsourced, or replaced my technology, to the point that the idea of a stable working-class in the USA became untenable. All this at the hands of the same class who was taken once for granted to be responsible.
It became clear to me, during the 1980s, that American society would not settle down into a European-like maturity. At the same time public schools began to experience a fission effect, mainly as a fallout of Brown V. Board of Ed. and such we had albeit later, the rise of the busing movement at this time.
Hardly did the busing plan prove successful and became moribund in Texas as soon as it was implemented, other than in large metropolitan areas. As I-Hope attests to, some public schools proved to be good, if their districts were based on wealthy demographics.
I too gave my children choices, as I-Hope's parents did, seeing the privatization of education holding less promise than in my generation. This marked the end of the marriage of traditionalism with libertarianism within the Republican party.
I also became more spiritually mature, coming to embrace the general welfare on humanity and during the 1990s changed my attitude more in accordance with values, such as 'love your neighbour'.
I now think schools need to address the structure in the school environment and rather than tear it all down, I would advocate all measure to address social problems which rise in schools, yet are unheard in companies. I do not buy the 'youth and immaturity are the sole causes of social degeneracy in schools' argument.
I now advocate local rule, strong discipline and clear directives towards academic goals. I further advocate a zero tolerance towards all forms on delinquency and misbehaviour.
Some say it cannot be done, while true under our current deluded philosophy of education, it can easily be done if the philosophy is absconded. The age on social interest coddling must end! Spare the teachers, at least most of them, for they know not what they do, rather get rid of the sociologically addle-minded doctors of education and their psychologist cronies. Gag them, run them out of town on a rail, whatever, just get rid of these enemies of the less fortunate.
Better had the children of the future fallen under the yoke of the traditional class conscience, than the prattlers of normalizing all forum of degeneracy in the name of 'all-forms-of-self-expression-are-equal' moronic brainwashed holders of pedigrees of stupidity!
Perhaps class-conscience materialism in far from the righteous of God, yet so much further is the passive tolerance and acceptance of the beast!
Alate_One
Well-known member
Kids need to have some accountability placed on them, as well as teachers. If kids don't want to learn, they tend not to. If they're allowed to get by without learning anything then they won't.
Instructors are so often goaded to pad test scores, students don't learn anything.
Today people too easily blame teachers for kids poor scores, but in many cases its the students laziness that does it. But of course parents don't want to hear that their precious child may be the one at fault.
I work at what is sometimes termed an "opportunity college". We take anyone with a pulse and money to spend and I see the results of a broken school system. Some students can't write, read or reason and have absolutely no discipline to study. They expected to be handed every answer to exams.
I blame the school's unwillingness to hold students accountable, but allowing them to move grades while learning and doing nothing.
Instructors are so often goaded to pad test scores, students don't learn anything.
Today people too easily blame teachers for kids poor scores, but in many cases its the students laziness that does it. But of course parents don't want to hear that their precious child may be the one at fault.
I work at what is sometimes termed an "opportunity college". We take anyone with a pulse and money to spend and I see the results of a broken school system. Some students can't write, read or reason and have absolutely no discipline to study. They expected to be handed every answer to exams.
I blame the school's unwillingness to hold students accountable, but allowing them to move grades while learning and doing nothing.
Has anyone heard of KIPP? Knowledge is Power Program. I started a thread about it a while back.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61052
http://www.kipp.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIPP
It has had some good success and I think we should use it more.
But as others have said, the bottom line comes down to the kids. If kids want to learn, they can learn, even in bad schools. The trouble is that kids are apathetic and parents aren't helping the situation. Parents need to motivate their kids and kids need to make the effort. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61052
http://www.kipp.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIPP
It has had some good success and I think we should use it more.
But as others have said, the bottom line comes down to the kids. If kids want to learn, they can learn, even in bad schools. The trouble is that kids are apathetic and parents aren't helping the situation. Parents need to motivate their kids and kids need to make the effort. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
Hey, our church needs a building! Could we have one before you do the blade thang??
Alate_One
Well-known member
I know quite a few parents that are absolutely unfit to teach their children. I know of a family that has a child that's a genius, and the parents are . . . let us say not at all bright, yet they are going to homeschool their child. I can't imagine anything that could be more damaging to this child to be held back by her parents . . . .
Are all parents going to have the inclination, time or ability to teach their children? I certainly do not think so.
Public Schools were one of the founding elements of American society, its sad you think they are a complete waste of time.
I see no problem with government run schools as long as they are not misused. Today's list of misuses is practically endless, however.
All depends, doesn't it? If public schools actually encouraged independent thinking and taught soundly, I'll give my money happily and proudly.
Oh yea! What I have in bold is a truth I found to be far from moot/
For my oldest children, at the PTA meeting, teachers encouraged parents to help with homework, one lady says, "well I never understood long division" Other parents said they were not sure about punctuation because they did not know the difference between a dependent and independent clause. Do all adverbs end in 'ly'; some would admit to not knowing basic elementary education.
Then there is a common response, "I just haven't the time" as they work full time, let us hope the long division problem cases were the secretaries. These persons were basically well off, not the redneck trailer trash types and they shure knew how to dress spiffy!
Not too many men there; hey now that it is common both parents work, who is going to do the homeschooling? Ok, the public schools are a mess, but I believe it is true the teachers can teach, at least most of them can teach, Read my post above, it is the administration that is at fault.
You want to begin to fix the problem, you do not bulldoze buildings, you get rid of the prevailing way one thinks about education. Consider this, as I was not clear before: in a company does anyone trip another employee? Does anyone write on the walls, or make obnoxious cracks, do people come to work with knives and guns? It seems to me, most kids have a bad case of the jitters. Then they say it is kids and kids cannot behave like adults!
BALONEY!
When I went to school we were perfect in our behaviour! You mean to suggest kids devolved? Come on, it is this permissive all-cultures-are-equal bull that is the problem! We have to get tough, solve the behaviour problems, than get back to real teaching and get past behaviour management once and for all.
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Cracked
New member
Here is the problem -
A kid comes from a terrible home environment. He doesn't give a rip about school, yet he is forced to attend. While there, he causes problems to the detriment of other students learning (who would've thunk it).
Do we:
A. Give up on the kid.
or
B. Do all we can within the limitations of the existing system to help this child.
Are the limits of "B" above anywhere this side of corporeal punishment?
Cracked
New member
You say - "change the system."
Fine. That is valid. However, until the time as such a thing is implemented, what do we do?
Wait. Aren't you asking what we can do differently? How is that not "changing the system"?
"Within the limits of the current system" I'm fairly sure we're already doing all we can. So I would suggest reexamining the limits of the current system. Are they necessary or even reasonable?
Being a conservative my first suggestion would be take a look back at the systems that came before. Back when we had one of the finest, if not the finest, educational system in the world. What has changed? Isn't that why we study history? To learn from past mistakes...and past successes?
Being an ultra-right wing conservative loon I'd say take a bulldozer to the current system. But I doubt you give that one serious consideration.
Alate_One
Well-known member
The problem is if you kick the kid out of school, you're giving him what he wants. Essentially he's rewarded for bad behavior, he gets to go home.
This is stupid, you have a kid like this you send him to a school that specializes in behavioral problems. Keeping him with the other students only damages *them*.
Alate_One
Well-known member
Frankly I don't think schools have actually changed that much over the years, but parents and kids have. Parents coddle their children today refusing to enforce rules, and kids don't care about education anymore. They are not curious about anything and have little to no interest in learning.
But we as adults cannot simply throw up our hands when it comes to children, because they are simply not adult enough to be allowed to ruin their own lives by refusing education.
Carrot and stick techniques need to be used to get kids to actually learn. REAL consequences, not "oh no I got sent home". In my high school we had Saturday school. Worst punishment ever.
I don't know how frequently that sort of thing is used in other schools but it worked pretty well in my high school.
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