toldailytopic: George Washington and Abe Lincoln: how would they have fared in the up

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for February 20th, 2012 09:42 AM

toldailytopic: George Washington and Abe Lincoln: how would they have fared in the upcoming 2012 election?

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[Nathon Detroit]

Democrats and liberal Republican's would hate George Washington.

"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian." - George Washington

 

[Nathon Detroit]

“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.” - George Washington

 

[Nathon Detroit]

“When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.” - George Washington

“Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” - George Washington

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I wonder if Abraham Lincoln could get elected on these ideas....

“If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six hours sharpening my ax” - Abraham Lincoln

“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.” - Abraham Lincoln

“Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right” - Abraham Lincoln

“Republicans are for both the man and the dollar, but in case of conflict the man before the dollar” - Abraham Lincoln

“Surely God would not have created such a being as man, with an ability to grasp the infinite, to exist only for a day! No, no, man was made for immortality.” - Abraham Lincoln

 

[Granite]

Washington would've been depicted as a cold, aloof, out-of-touch one percenter (which he was, in large part). Lincoln would be depicted as a more populist, working class figure.

Both men's opinions on race and sex would be disastrous in the 21st century and neither was a supporter of organized religion.

Surprisingly enough the Virginian and Illinoisian shared an ardent belief in a centralized, strong federal union, and both supported a central bank. Washington favored isolationist foreign policy; it's likely Lincoln would have been reluctant to engage in foreign adventures, although he certainly would not hesitate to use military force as he saw fit.

Neither would be a completely reliable defender of civil liberties, Lincoln because he violated them regularly and Washington because he could be easily manipulated.

 

[Town Heretic]

toldailytopic: George Washington and Abe Lincoln: how would they have fared in the upcoming 2012 election?

Horribly. It's a television driven medium. And anyway, Washington's honesty wouldn't have seen him through the primaries and Lincoln would be far too accommodating for the right.

Teddy Roosevelt, on the other hand, would have it sewn up in a thrice...or something. lain:

Bully! :thumb:

 

[ccfromsc]

They would never have made it through the primaries. The media would have eviscerated both of them.

 

[Brother Vinny]

George Washington's slavery stance would have turned off the left; his status as a hemp grower (and, some say, smoker) would have alienated the right.

So much has been said about Lincoln that it's hard to pin down the real man, which might make him the ideal candidate for our times.

 

[PureX]

The thing I've always admired about George Washington was that after the War of Independence, when he was wildly popular, the founders came as begged him to be our new king (for the duration of his life). They naturally assumed at that time that the new government of the United States would more or less resemble the previous government. But washington steadfastly refused, and this forced the founders to get together and create a new form of government, a government by the people, that had never been seen in the world, before.

Had George Washington's ego gotten the better of him, and he became our first king as everyone wanted him to, the story of the United States of America, and of the whole world in fact, would have been a very different story.

What I most admire about Abraham Lincoln is that he understood that the civil war was about more than slavery and state's rights. It was about saving the United States, itself, and then about limiting state's rights, and then about ending slavery. It must have been a terrible and troubling position to be in, being in charge of a nation that was terminally divided against itself on so many levels.

If I had to choose between them, now, I would choose Lincoln, because I think we are becoming toxically divided against ourselves, once again, and we need someone with Lincoln's wisdom and eloquence to help us to become one nation, again. Lincoln would have clearly seen what the real threat in America is, and been able to rally us together, to face it as one. This would accomplish two goals, it would put an end to the forces that are threatening us as a nation, and unite us again as one people.

 

[Sherman]

Lincoln was a praying president and a homegrown Christian. He would have turned off the Left. He read the bible every day. Here is a sampling of how the Bible influenced his words. Lincoln didn't formally belong to any church denomination but he was still a Christian. Here is sampling of some of his quotes.


That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or any denomination of Christians in particular.-July 31, 1846 Handbill Replying to Charges of Infidelity

Intelligence, patriotism, Christianity, and a firm reliance on Him, who has never yet forsaken this favored land, are still competent to adjust, in the best way, all our present difficulty.
--March 4, 1861 First Inaugural Address


To read in the Bible, as the word of God himself, that "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread," and to preach therefrom that, "In the sweat of other mans faces shalt thou eat bread," to my mind can scarcely be reconciled with honest sincerity.
--May 30, 1864 Letter to George Ide and Others


On principle I dislike an oath which requires a man to swear he has not done wrong. It rejects the Christian principle of forgiveness on terms of repentance. I think it is enough if the man does no wrong hereafter.
--February 5, 1864 Memorandum to Secretary Stanton


Source



George Washington would not have fared any better. There is a lot of mention of his reliance on God in his letters, something that is unacceptable in much of today's society.



While we are contending for our own liberty, we should be very cautious not to violate the rights of conscience in others, ever considering that God alone is the judge of the hearts of men, and to him only in this case they are answerable.

GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter to Benedict Arnold, Sep. 14, 1775

The time is now near at hand which must probably determine whether Americans are to be freemen or slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their houses and farms are to be pillaged and destroyed, and themselves consigned to a state of wretchedness from which no human efforts will deliver them. The fate of unborn millions will now depend, under God, on the courage and conduct of this army. Our cruel and unrelenting enemy leaves us only the choice of brave resistance, or the most abject submission. We have, therefore, to resolve to conquer or die.​

GEORGE WASHINGTON, address to the Continental Army before the battle of Long Island, Aug. 27, 1776

I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation.
​

GEORGE WASHINGTON, circular to the states, Jun. 8, 1783

Source


Today we are bombarded with the idea of self reliance. Last night I just watched the film, The Green Lantern. The green energy from the lantern was dependent on the power of the will. When the will was weak, that was when the film's hero was in danger of failing. The message of the film was power of self. Lincoln and Washington typify heroes that are the opposite. They didn't rely on their own wills. Their papers and letters indicate that they prayed a lot and requested prayers.
​

 

[Granite]

Washington was a deist who refused to partake of communion. Don't try to make him something he wasn't.

Photogenically, both men would've been disasters. Washington was a very poor public speaker and he'd need dentures; Lincoln was homely and had a surprisingly high-pitched voice. Also, he liked ribald humor, so there'd probably be a YouTube video of him telling a dirty joke making the rounds.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Washington was a deist who refused to partake of communion. Don't try to make him something he wasn't.

Oh of course... all the founding fathers were diests. :blabla:

What a bunch of total hogwash! Revisionist history at it's best (errr worst).

Was George Washington a Diest?

 

[Granite]

Oh of course... all the founding fathers were diests.

No. All of them were not deists, and I didn't make this claim. But Washington certainly was.

Check out Chernow's biography--fascinating read.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

:mock: revisionist historians.

 

[Granite]

Truth isn't revisionism and I'd be happy to discuss the topic if anyone wants to chime in.

 

[S0Z0]

No. All of them were not deists, and I didn't make this claim. But Washington certainly was.

Check out Chernow's biography--fascinating read.

I can't imagine Chernow would be very excited knowing that he has a moron praising his book.

 

[Granite]

I can't imagine Chernow would be very excited knowing that he has a moron praising his book.

I can't imagine him caring what you think.

Ignore list.

 

[S0Z0]

Ignore list.

What, no :yawn:?

You've hurt my feelings

 

[MrRadish]

I think if either of them ran for president today they'd be very confused, would freak out when they saw aeroplanes, computers and the like, and then would be committed to a mental asylum or at the very least viewed as being a joke candidate like Vermin Supreme.