toldailytopic: Bob Costas makes an anti-gun rant on Sunday Night football. What did y

[Cruciform]

However what this argument fail to realise is that guns kill people easier and more effectively than any other commonly available means.

However, that was not Costas's point. His claim was that "If Jovan Belcher didn’t possess a gun, he and Kasandra Perkins would both be alive today." It was this specific assertion to which I was responding. Philosophers refer to this type of argument as a Modus ponens statement: "IF this, THEN that." Costas has here merely engaged in a Non Sequitur Fallacy.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[This Charming Manc]

I am aware of that two answers;

1) All deaths are regrettable and should be avoided if possible
2) They are not a significant enough proportion of the stats to change the picture.

What is good news is since mid 2060 all violent crime in the USA has dropped significantly this includes gun crime

Apparently Mr. Manchester is unaware that the stats include instances of justified, legal deaths by firearm.

 

[Lighthouse]

I am aware of that two answers;

1) All deaths are regrettable and should be avoided if possible
2) They are not a significant enough proportion of the stats to change the picture.

What is good news is since mid 2060 all violent crime in the USA has dropped significantly this includes gun crime

If memory serves they cut the number almost in half.

 

[Town Heretic]

Bob Costas makes an anti-gun rant on Sunday Night football. What did you think of it?

I found it in poor taste, shallow, errant, self righteous and smug.

 

[This Charming Manc]

OK went to check the FBI website;

The UCR Program does not include the following situations in this offense classification: deaths caused by negligence, suicide, or accident; justifiable homicides; and attempts to murder or assaults to murder, which are scored as aggravated assaults.

Not is your memory wrong you assertion from last time we had the discussion was completely without merit, looks like the stats stand.

If memory serves they cut the number almost in half.

 

[Lighthouse]

Bob Costas makes an anti-gun rant on Sunday Night football. What did you think of it?

I found it in poor taste, shallow, errant, self righteous and smug.

:shut:

OK went to check the FBI website;

Not is your memory wrong you assertion from last time we had the discussion was completely without merit, looks like the stats stand.

And the stats are?

Because when I looked at the site last I compared someone's posted number with all death by firearms, and they had included all of them. I then went through and subtracted all justified, legal deaths by firearm [including when cops shot someone] and that removed about 49% of the original number.

 

[alwight]

How dare a mere sports commentator talk about something so dear to the hearts of so many Americans, the sacred right to own guns.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...d=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk3&pLid=240906

 

[kmoney]

How dare a mere sports commentator talk about something so dear to the hearts of so many Americans, the sacred right to own guns.

It wouldn't have been the right venue to make a pro-gun talk either.

 

[This Charming Manc]

:
And the stats are?

An estimated 14,748 persons were murdered nationwide in 2010. This was a 4.2. this does not include justifiable homicides.

Over the 12995 killings which details existed for the FBI are happy to give national firearms rate of 67.5%. which should then be extrapolation onto the total figure.

I do remember the idiotic argument you put forward which is really that less than 50% of the murders but you made some stupid and inaccurate claims to try to put those numbers together. You were not convincing then and your less than convincing now.

But even if you right (I dint I believe the FBI not you), the us gun murder rate is still massive and makes the over all murder rate twice that of the UK

Because when I looked at the site last I compared someone's posted number with all death by firearms, and they had included all of them. I then went through and subtracted all justified, legal deaths by firearm [including when cops shot someone] and that removed about 49% of the original number.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Its not a ridiculous notion, most people who shoot someone are not willing to risk a knife or a bludgeon. That is why murder rates go up when guns become more common.

However, that was not Costas's point. His claim was that "If Jovan Belcher didn’t possess a gun, he and Kasandra Perkins would both be alive today." It was this specific assertion to which I was responding. Philosophers refer to this type of argument as a Modus ponens statement: "IF this, THEN that." Costas has here merely engaged in a Non Sequitur Fallacy.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[alwight]

It wouldn't have been the right venue to make a pro-gun talk either.

Yes perhaps I agree, but guns are certainly way too sacred for that in America it seems, while here in the UK it isn't even an issue either way, particularly during sports or a Batman movie. lain:

 

[Sherman]

BOB COSTAS: Well, you knew it was coming. In the aftermath of the nearly unfathomable events in Kansas City, that most mindless of sports clichés was heard yet again: Something like this really puts it all in perspective. Well, if so, that sort of perspective has a very short shelf-life since we will inevitably hear about the perspective we have supposedly again regained the next time ugly reality intrudes upon our games. Please, those who need tragedies to continually recalibrate their sense of proportion about sports would seem to have little hope of ever truly achieving perspective. You want some actual perspective on this? Well, a bit of it comes from the Kansas City-based writer Jason Whitlock with whom I do not always agree, but who today said it so well that we may as well just quote or paraphrase from the end of his article. "Our current gun culture,"Whitlock wrote, "ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy and that more convenience-store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead." "Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it. In the coming days, Jovan Belcher’s actions, and their possible connection to football will be analyzed. Who knows?" "But here," wrote Jason Whitlock," is what I believe. If Jovan Belcher didn’t possess a gun, he and Kasandra Perkins would both be alive today."

- source

:flamer:

That's just too gay.

The gun didn't kill the woman--Jovan Belcher at the trigger did. Jovan Belcher could have killed Kasandra with a knife or a baseball bat. Lets ban knives and baseball bats while we are at too. The flaw is in the person not the weapon. Taking guns away isn't going to fix the problem. The trouble runs a whole lot deeper than that. Libitard solutions are not the answer.

 

[Town Heretic]

:shut:

See what I mean? Maturity on display. And given I wasn't talking to or about you or even likely disagreeing with you...point made.

Thanks. :thumb:

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

:shut:

 

[eameece]

BOB COSTAS: Well, you knew it was coming. In the aftermath of the nearly unfathomable events in Kansas City, that most mindless of sports clichés was heard yet again: Something like this really puts it all in perspective. Well, if so, that sort of perspective has a very short shelf-life since we will inevitably hear about the perspective we have supposedly again regained the next time ugly reality intrudes upon our games. Please, those who need tragedies to continually recalibrate their sense of proportion about sports would seem to have little hope of ever truly achieving perspective. You want some actual perspective on this? Well, a bit of it comes from the Kansas City-based writer Jason Whitlock with whom I do not always agree, but who today said it so well that we may as well just quote or paraphrase from the end of his article. "Our current gun culture,"Whitlock wrote, "ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy and that more convenience-store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead." "Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it. In the coming days, Jovan Belcher’s actions, and their possible connection to football will be analyzed. Who knows?" "But here," wrote Jason Whitlock," is what I believe. If Jovan Belcher didn’t possess a gun, he and Kasandra Perkins would both be alive today."

- source

Bravo to Bob for speaking the truth. I don't know if anyone here will recognize it. But guns are just one of the ways that America is failing to move onward into the 21st century.

 

[Tambora]

Handguns do not enhance our safety.

Does mine.

 

[This Charming Manc]

OK trying a more nuanced description,

The common availability of handguns on the whole makes a society a less safe place.

If guns could be significantly limited, societies do become safer places.

Handguns do not enhance our safety.

Does mine.

 

[tetelestai]

toldailytopic: Bob Costas makes an anti-gun rant on Sunday Night football. What did you think of it?

In 2007 Barry Bonds said the following about Bob Costas: (bold my emphases)

"A little midget man, who doesn't know jack about baseball, who never played the game before? You can tell Bob Costas what I called him."

All those years I thought Bonds was referring to Costas' height (Costas is only 5'-7") when he called him a "little midget man", but it turns out Bonds may have been referring to Costas' intelligence.

 

[Lighthouse]

An estimated 14,748 persons were murdered nationwide in 2010. This was a 4.2. this does not include justifiable homicides.

Over the 12995 killings which details existed for the FBI are happy to give national firearms rate of 67.5%. which should then be extrapolation onto the total figure.

I do remember the idiotic argument you put forward which is really that less than 50% of the murders but you made some stupid and inaccurate claims to try to put those numbers together. You were not convincing then and your less than convincing now.

But even if you right (I dint I believe the FBI not you), the us gun murder rate is still massive and makes the over all murder rate twice that of the UK

I linked to the pages with the FBI charts and you've posted numbers with no source citation.:think:

And if you wanted to be honest you wouldn't accuse me of leaving that previous discussion claiming that guns are used in less than 50% of homicides in the US, seeing as how my last word on that was that it is just over 51%. Of course, it would appear to be higher if you're not smart enough to realize that "other firearms" refers to crossbows and the like.

But hey, if you want to stand by the conviction that I'm wrong then be a man and post the links to the FBI site.

Bravo to Bob for speaking the truth. I don't know if anyone here will recognize it. But guns are just one of the ways that America is failing to move onward into the 21st century.

Idiot.