toldailytopic: Are sports that involve fighting immoral?

[Buzzword]

Not in any way, at least for the fighters.

From the fighters' perspective, boxing has helped many young kids avoid gang life and violent crime by giving them an outlet for their rage and/or aggression, which is usually the result of abuse at home.

Mixed martial arts requires a level of self-discipline unheard of in any other sport, simply due to the massive number of skills required to even last a round, much less thrive.
If you can only box or kickbox, you stand no chance (see James Toney vs. Randy Couture).
If you can only grapple, you stand no chance.

Proficiency in grappling, wrestling, AND striking are all necessary to win in mixed martial arts, and gaining that proficiency requires total dedication.

Both men entering the cage know the risks, and even then the referee is trained to minimize the lasting damage the fighters can inflict on one another, unlike boxing.
Boxing allows men to take shot after shot to the head, and even if you go down you have 10 seconds to get back up, regardless of brain damage.
In MMA, not only are you able to attack the legs and chest in addition to the head, if you go down the referee instantly checks for consciousness and/or ability to defend oneself.
Loss of either means the fight is over.

The rules of mixed martial arts also help keep fighters safe.
Yes, MMA has rules, contrary to the stigma some people attach to it.
Biting, gouging, headbutts, stomping the head of a downed opponent, groin shots, small joint manipulation (fingers), etc. are all prohibited.

I've been a fan of mixed martial arts for almost 10 years, and the social stigma is totally unwarranted.
These are not bloodthirsty brutes, but (for the most part) humble, respectful men and women who have completely devoted themselves to their craft as martial artists and as fighters.

After being a fan for so long, I now find every other sport boring, because the massive skillset held by the top fighters of MMA means that every fight is unpredictable and anything could happen.

Plus it's a FIGHT, not tossing/kicking/hitting a ball around.


As for the promoters, yes guys like Don King have basically exploited fighters from the start, but how is that any different from every other businessman in America who exploits their employees?

Being part of a combat sport makes no difference.
A corrupt employer is a corrupt employer.

 

[Lighthouse]

_
And any "sport" that allows you to smoke while engaging in it is not a "sport," such as NASCAR, Texas Hold 'Em, Curling.

If you can't do it drunk it isn't worth doing.:thumb:

 

[The Berean]

There's some talk about trying to make MMA an Olympic sport and calling it Pankration.

 

[john w]

If you can't do it drunk it isn't worth doing.:thumb:

_
That is why I like Hold 'Em and Curling! Also, chicks dig guys that have a few brewski's while playing these fine American pastimes. And I dig chicks.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

I wouldn't say they are immoral. I would agree with others that they are boring though! However, I would say some martial arts are incompatible with Christianity due to their eastern religious and mystic origins.

 

[Nick M]

I think *Acts9_12out* said it best. "What could possibly be immoral about the manly art of self defense?"

 

[Buzzword]

There's some talk about trying to make MMA an Olympic sport and calling it Pankration.

Except that Pankration is closer to Greco-Roman wrestling, which is already an Olympic sport.

Besides, who wants MMA to be dumbed down and have its testicles removed?
Look at "olympic" judo, karate, boxing, etc. for examples.

 

[Ktoyou]

We are talking about what is or is not moral in the human sense. Is boxing moral? Is eating a pig moral? Is raising a pig, then slaughtering it moral? What if the pig has a name?

All this is one kind of morality, yet true morality is our actions in Christ.

 

[Nick_A]

Are sports that involve fighting immoral?

"I would suggest that barbarism be considered as a permanent and universal human characteristic which becomes more or less pronounced according to the play of circumstances." Simone Weil

That being the nature of the beast, it seems to make moral sense to have some sports as an outlet for this human characteristic that serves to minimize the results of this need for mutual self destruction.

 

[Todah]

All of the fighting sports are more moral than hockey. The combatants in these sports know why they are there, and are prepared to be hit. Hockey fights often involve hitting people from behind, and the unsuspecting, and the overmatched, in weight class.

Hockey fights often involve one coward, or bully. I see no cowards, or bullies, (due to the weight classifications} but real men, in all the fighting sports.

 

[caleb36]

sports include dog fighting. This is animal cruelity. Cruelity is immoral. therefore...you know what i'm going to say

 

[The Berean]

Except that Pankration is closer to Greco-Roman wrestling, which is already an Olympic sport.

I thought Pankration was a combination of wrestling and boxing?

Besides, who wants MMA to be dumbed down and have its testicles removed?

That depends on who you ark. Dana White would support MMA's inclusion in the Olympics.

 

[zoo22]

If you can't do it drunk it isn't worth doing.:thumb:

Eh, there's plenty of fighting done while drunk.

 

[The Graphite]

I think *Acts9_12out* said it best. "What could possibly be immoral about the manly art of self defense?"

And it makes sense he would say that, since he now competes in mixed martial arts events, here in Colorado! (And he's pretty good. He should be - He is SWAT.)

Okay, here's my take, first in summary, and then with explanation.

1. I believe they should outlaw professional boxing.
2. I'm a fan and supporter of mixed martial arts competition.

Why the dichotomy? The sports are fundamentally different, and as far as I'm concerned, boxing is more barbaric and dangerous than MMA for several reasons.

The aim of boxing is to injure your opponent's brain with direct, jarring blows to the head as hard and as many times as possible, typically round after round after round, until you pummel him into unconsciousness. This has a well-established track record of causing varying degrees of brain damage which is irreversible.

The aim of MMA is to get your opponent to submit. You don't have to knock him out or cause any injury at all, in order to do this. If your opponent is injured, it's because he was in a position to get imminently injured and he did not submit. If a person is knocked out, it's typically because of one or a very small number of quick blows, not a large number of blows with a cushioned glove that draws out the repeated head trauma. Much less likelihood of brain damage. Other injuries are known to occur, but it's typically the choice of the person being injured deciding not to submit at that moment. This can even involve pulled joints, torn muscles or broken bones.

Pulled tendons, torn muscles, and broken bones, all heal. Brain damage is permanent. It's apples and oranges. I've seen an MMA fighter is a blatantly solid arm lock, and he refused to submit, and the guy bent his arm just enough to break it. The guy effectively broke his own arm. It's his own fault. The arm healed, and he's fine.

Meanwhile, many long-time boxers end up with varying degrees of brain damage they have to live with in old age, if they survive that long. And how many deaths in official, respectable MMA circles, here in America? How many? Do I hear crickets...?

MMA is much more civilized and reasonable than boxing, which I find to be nothing more than legalized assault and reckless endangerment of another's life, which I would argue is analogous to legalized murder still being murder, even if it is so-called "legalized." Legalized murder is still murder. Legalized assault is still assault and battery with intention to harm the opponent.

MMA's goal is not to harm the opponent. The goal is to get him to submit. If he won't, he may end up with very recoverable injuries that are his own fault. So, I put MMA in the same camp as professional football; it also doesn't intend to seriously injure the opponent, but injuries happen along the way. (And I've seen some devastating injuries in football, even career-ending injuries, and yes, there have even been deaths, yet is anyone here calling for the banning of pro football?)

That's my two cents.