ECT "Things that are different" included Gentiles

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
The OC included the law.

HINT:

(Heb 8:13) By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

At the time Hebrews was written, the OC was "outdated" and "obsolete".
Caught, in another lie, from his confused, invented AD 70-ism....

I asked him, when the OC ended?

His response?: AD 70.

I asked him if the OC, included the law?
The OC included the law.


And yet,

The law was nailed to the cross. You can't divide the law into parts that suit your belief system.


Catch that lie? The law ended at the cross...But the OC, which included the law, did not end until AD 70.

Watch him spin it, lie, side step, peppered with a few "Darby" "Hail Mary's." Watch...


Take a seat, you AD 70-ist/Preterist clown......Stay down on the mat....TOL is seeing you bloodied.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Impossible:

(Matt 24:2) “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

According to you, if Israel would have repented, then what Jesus said above wouldn't have happened.

I never said that. Of course the things which He said would happen before he returns to set up the earthly kingdom would come to pass. But as I said, if the children of Israel would have repented then the earthly kingdom would have remained in view.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Catch that lie? The law ended at the cross...But the OC, which included the law, did not end until AD 70.

No lie, just you being confused again.

Go back and study why the Israelites could not enter the Promised Land, and had to wonder in the desert for 40 years. HINT: 30AD to 70AD was 40 years.

Specifically, the part where circumcision was required under the law, but not one male was circumcised during those 40 years.

(Joshua 5:5) All the people that came out had been circumcised, but all the people born in the wilderness during the journey from Egypt had not.
 

Danoh

New member
They were born under the OC. Jesus was born under the OC.

In addition to the 12 preaching that Jesus was the Christ, both Jesus and the 12 proclaimed the good news of the kingdom:

(Luke 16:16) "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.

As we see above, the Law and Prophets was no longer preached after John the Baptist.

Matthew 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
 

Danoh

New member
Impossible:

(Matt 24:2) “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

According to you, if Israel would have repented, then what Jesus said above wouldn't have happened.

Notice Jesus says "Truly"

...

Nonsense, He is talking about what would happen out of His knowing Israel would not repent.

Luke 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

But the door was open for them to repent...until it was no longer open.

Said door was still open in Acts 3, for example.

Put away your theologically biased history books.

And while you are at it, put away your reasoning into such things absent of their whole, you Josephen Russellite :chuckle:
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
But the door was open for them to repent...until it was no longer open.

Said door was still open in Acts 3, for example.

Nope.

If the door was still open in Acts 3, then everything Jesus said in Matt 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, Luke 19, etc. would have been false.

Like I said, you Darby Followers have to come up with theories in order to try and make the Bible fit your Dispensationalism.

Your theories cannot stand the test of scripture.
 

Danoh

New member
Nope.

If the door was still open in Acts 3, then everything Jesus said in Matt 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, Luke 19, etc. would have been false.

Like I said, you Darby Followers have to come up with theories in order to try and make the Bible fit your Dispensationalism.

Your theories cannot stand the test of scripture.

No.

He prophesied what He prophesied in His foreknowledge that He would be rejected.

Yours is the false witness.

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
He prophesied what He prophesied in His foreknowledge that He would be rejected.

His foreknowledge included the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

There was no "open door" after the cross. The NC had begun, and the OC was about to fade away, and be gone forever.

(Heb 8:6) But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

No "open door" in Hebrews.

The NC "WAS ESTABLISHED".

Yet, most of you Darby Followers deny that the NC was established.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Within actual MAD and not within this hybrid of theirs?
It can be shown by the scriptures and has been demonstrated over and over that the both made one (Ephesians 2:14 KJV) is:

1.Jews and Greeks gathered into the Body during Paul's Acts ministry. They were in the commonwealth of Israel and had a hope


And

2. The "you Gentiles", who in time past were without Christ being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Thus, Paul's inclusion of himself in Eph. 2.
Paul's inclusion of himself is the first (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV) of the "we" who "first trusted" (Ephesians 1:12 KJV). The Ephesians to whom he wrote the letter were the "ye" who also trusted (Ephesians 1:13 KJV). And then there were instances of him making an all inclusive declaration using "us" and "we" like in Ephesians 2:4-5 KJV.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
"Things that are different are not the same" goes for the Gentiles to whom Paul was first sent and those to whom he was later sent. Yes, those to whom Paul was first sent became members of the one Body with the Gentiles to whom he was later sent, but some Gentiles (called Greeks in a KJB) got to hear the gospel of Christ preached to them because they were found in the synagogue of the Jews fearing God (Acts 13:16 KJV, Acts 13:26 KJV) and seeking a blessing according to the promise of Genesis 12:3 KJV (Galatians 3:29 KJV). No, they did not know that their blessing would come in the form of a mystery/the preaching of the forgiveness of sins (Acts 13:38-39 KJV)/ that Christ died for their sins, was buried and rose again the third day for their justification(Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, Romans 16:25-27 KJV. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).


We can try all day long, but we cannot say the same thing about the Ephesian Gentiles to whom Paul wrote the letter. The "you Gentiles" that Paul became a prisoner of Jesus Christ for (Ephesians 3:1 KJV) in time past were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. These Gentiles were not found fearing God and seeking a blessing through Israel! They were worshiping the goddess Diana as late as Acts 19 (Acts 19:28 KJV)!

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


We, by extension are just like these Gentiles (like the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter) as we didn't have anything to do with Israel! There was no Israel by the time we came around!
This is where we fit in to God's mystery plan, beloved! It was unsearchable/hid in God that we should be fellowheirs with them and of the same Body beginning with Paul (on the same ship/the fellowship of the mystery) and partakers of God's promise in Christ BY THE GOSPEL (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) until the dispensation of the grace of God was given by God to Paul to usward!


Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:





lol, who on earth thinks that the 'lateness' of the worship of Diana has anything to do with the knowledge or maturity of believers at Ephesus?

btw, the destination of the letter is blank in the best originals. It was circulated widely.

There is no evidence of getting a blessing through civic or DNA Israel. It was of course a blessing to join its mission, which is where it was supposed to go anyway. Israel was supposed to be a light to the nations, not as a restored civic structure but in Christ and his message, Acts 13:47.
 
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