things are different now...for me

[jamie]

even the Sumerian laws? Did He give those?

Not just Sumer but all nations.

Nebuchadnezzar explains, "Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth and his ways judgment and those that walk in pride he is able to abase." (Daniel 4:37)

A nation (any nation) requires government, people, laws, land.

 

[IMJerusha]

My comment was addressed to a person who claimed the law can be kept. It should be evident to everyone that without the priesthood and the sanctuary on which the law is based the law cannot be kept.

The Law is based upon the Will of God, not the priesthood and the Temple. The fact that Yeshua fulfilled the need for the sin sacrifice and made all foods clean changed some things. I don't think everything was changed, however, or Yeshua would not have declared the need for us to be obedient to the Will of the Father.

 

[jamie]

The Law is based upon the Will of God, not the priesthood and the Temple.

You misunderstood. The Aaronic priesthood and God's sanctuary are an integral part of the Torah. The Torah cannot be modified and was not modified.

 

[IMJerusha]

I'm not sure what you mean by replacement theology. If you mean the Law of Moses has been replaced, well that's obvious.

No, that's not what I mean and God's Law has not been replaced. Replacement Theology is “Israel has been replaced by the Christian Church, so the promises and prominent position once held by God’s chosen people are now held exclusively by the Church.”

No Levitical priesthood + no sanctuary = no Law of Moses.

“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

What do you think that part in yellow means? It means that it was assumed the Gentiles would eventually learn what they needed to learn. It certainly didn't mean that God's Law was not applicable to the world on account of Yeshua.

However, the church of God will restore the kingdom of Israel and it's law. Be patient. We're working on it.

As far as I can tell, the church of God won't be restoring anything. It can hardly get out of its own way, let alone God's.

 

[IMJerusha]

You misunderstood. The Aaronic priesthood and God's sanctuary are an integral part of the Torah. The Torah cannot be modified and was not modified.

Then you're calling Yeshua a liar?

 

[jamie]

Then you're calling Yeshua a liar?

I didn't even use the word so I don't know what you are referring to with your comment.

 

[IMJerusha]

and law points out sin...

but I was trying to point out about usury...no response?

sigh...

I wasn't sure what you were about with the usury aspect of your reply. It was a departure, in my opinion, from the course of discussion at hand. What would you like me to say, something against the Catholic church? Why, when sin is applicable to all of us?

 

[IMJerusha]

I didn't even use the word so I don't know what you are referring to with your comment.

Regardless of the Aaronic priesthood or the presence/nonpresence of the Temple, Yeshua modified the Torah, Jamie. Are you stating that He did not have the authority or the God-given mission to do so?

 

[jamie]

Yeshua modified the Torah, Jamie. Are you stating that He did not have the authority or the God-given mission to do so?

For verily I say unto you, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled."
(Matthew 5:18)​

Does the law allow things to be added or taken away?

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. (Deuteronomy 4:2)

What thing soever I command you, observe to do it, thou shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it. (Deuteronomy 12:32)​

Can the law be changed without violating the law?

 

[IMJerusha]

For verily I say unto you, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled."
(Matthew 5:18)​

Does the law allow things to be added or taken away?

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. (Deuteronomy 4:2)

What thing soever I command you, observe to do it, thou shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it. (Deuteronomy 12:32)​

Can the law be changed without violating the law?

Is Yeshua of the Aaronic priesthood? The Torah has been modified.
Is Yeshua our sin sacrifice? The Torah has been modified.
Did Yeshua declare all foods clean? The Torah has been modified.

Since God sent His Son, I would say it was He who modified it and He who has the right.

 

[jamie]

Is Yeshua of the Aaronic priesthood? The Torah has been modified.
Is Yeshua our sin sacrifice? The Torah has been modified.
Did Yeshua declare all foods clean? The Torah has been modified.

Since God sent His Son, I would say it was He who modified it and He who has the right.

Are you referring to the God who said I change not?

For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. (Malachi 3:6)​

Where in the Torah does it say the priesthood was changed?

Wherefore say, "Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace and he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood because he was zealous for his God and made an atonement for the children of Israel." (Numbers 25:12-13)​

Are you saying God does not keep his word?

Where does the Torah say that a man can be a sin sacrifice?

Israel's law required that a transgressor suffer the penalty for his or her transgression. The same is true in U.S. law. A person convicted of a legal transgression is not permited to appoint someone else to serve the convict's sentence.

Israel's law did not permit substitutionary sacrifice.

All foods were already clean but the Torah does not make scavengers clean.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Are you referring to the God who said I change not?

For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. (Malachi 3:6)​

Where in the Torah does it say the priesthood was changed?

Wherefore say, "Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace and he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood because he was zealous for his God and made an atonement for the children of Israel." (Numbers 25:12-13)​

good discussion ladies!

this covenant of peace and perpetual priesthood was not with Israel but for Aaron and his children.

Aaron is not the father of Israel, for all we know their are Muslims that could be his descendants.

but I beleive that priesthood is still somewhere....

 

[jeremysdemo]

Regardless of the Aaronic priesthood or the presence/nonpresence of the Temple, Yeshua modified the Torah, Jamie. Are you stating that He did not have the authority or the God-given mission to do so?

I don't beleive Jesus modified the Torah.

I beleive the Torah was modified by men long before he came along, and was being abused/misused.

what he did was restore it to it's proper meaning. :idea: this upset the teachers of the day.

 

[clefty]

Not just Sumer but all nations.

Nebuchadnezzar explains, "Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth and his ways judgment and those that walk in pride he is able to abase." (Daniel 4:37)

A nation (any nation) requires government, people, laws, land.

now Yah gave all the laws to all the nations? wow

Nebuchadnezzar was a believer but Babylonian law was arrived at long before he was king

and yes a nation any nation requires government people laws land...

and Yas initially wished to be king but the people wanted someone else...

but law is foundational

but you have said the mosaic law is post #83 inoperable #87 nullified #89 fixed by God so no one can keep it
#107 cannot be kept without priest or temple #130 is history

so what law is still relevant and valid for you as a believer?

 

[clefty]

The Law is based upon the Will of God, not the priesthood and the Temple. The fact that Yeshua fulfilled the need for the sin sacrifice and made all foods clean changed some things. I don't think everything was changed, however, or Yeshua would not have declared the need for us to be obedient to the Will of the Father.

hmmm...can you show me? I have heard it before, do you also "what enters the mouth cannot defile?"

 

[clefty]

You misunderstood. The Aaronic priesthood and God's sanctuary are an integral part of the Torah. The Torah cannot be modified and was not modified.

Ok but Moses did allow for divorce which originally was not and Yahusha pegged him as changing it...

and by Torah do you mean the first 5 books, or the law of Moses, and/or exclusive or Yah's 10

 

[clefty]

I wasn't sure what you were about with the usury aspect of your reply.

thanks for remembering I really had intended to focus more on that...as the world financial crises has a long history and I thought it would be of interest that it is scriptural...

It was a departure, in my opinion, from the course of discussion at hand. What would you like me to say, something against the Catholic church? Why, when sin is applicable to all of us?

say anything you like, and no I did not wish you to speak against anyone/thing...but understanding any financing of wars, debt slavery and coming economic collapses and the powers that be who have destroyed so much I thought you would say something at least...

to think understanding of scripture on all that reveals so much and could have prevented so much evil but then maybe that is not the plan...

its an issue with current muslim banks and its "global (t)errorism"

 

[jamie]

but you have said the mosaic law is post #83 inoperable #87 nullified #89 fixed by God so no one can keep it
#107 cannot be kept without priest or temple #130 is history

so what law is still relevant and valid for you as a believer?

The perfect law of liberty by which we are to judge ourself.

 

[jamie]

and by Torah do you mean the first 5 books, or the law of Moses, and/or exclusive or Yah's 10

The Hebrew Bible consists of the law, the prophets, the writings. The Torah is usually referring to the first five books, those of whom Moses is credited.

 

[Mr. 5020]

ephesians 2? any particular verse?

reconcile what?

oh works? ha

its like dishes its only a chore when you don't want to do them...but there are times you want them done...

gratitude for His grace causes me to desire to do works...to obey...

no boasting here...just amazed by how awesome the kitchen looks and how hygienic it is

19 "Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household,"

see? my faith through grace makes me no longer foreign...I want to be a good citizen and member of the household...so what are the rules?

I agree with that, in that gratitude of grace makes me desire to do good works. That is, however, very different from saying that works are required for salvation.