Welcome!
things are different now...for me
- Thread starter clefty
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Welcome!
thanks for the welcome
some versions say Sabbath drew near...
If you are reckoning time from sunset to sunset, it is very difficult to see the flow or harmony between the Torah (law) account of the Passover and the Gospel account of the Messiah Crucifixion on Passover.
Sequence of events:
1. Joseph of Arimathea prepared the body of The Messiah to be buried on the Preparation Day before the Holy Day.
2. John 19:31 (King James Version): The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
He knew that he had to get the body ready for burial as soon as possible on the preparation day (Passover) before the Feast of Unleavened Bread (The Holy Day). Joseph knew that the body of The Messiah could not be left hanging overnight according to the Law or Torah. Take a look at Deuteronomy 21:22-23 & Joshua 10:26-27 .
3. It was already ” between the evening” (from 3:00 pm to sunset toward the beginning of darkness or night) on the Day of Preparation (i.e. Wednesday evening) when Joseph requested permission from Pilate to take The Messiah’s body (See Matthew 27:57-58; Mark 15:42-43). .
4. Pilate sent a centurion to verify that The Messiah was dead (Mark 15:44-45).
5. Joseph purchased linen strips to wrap the body of The Messiah (Mark 15:46).
6. Joseph returned to the place of the crucifixion to take down the body (Mark 15:46, John 20:27).
7. Nicodemus shows up with approximately 100 pounds of myrrh and aloes to prep the body for burial (John. 19:39, 40).
8. The body of The Messiah was taken to the tomb and a stone was rolled in front of it (Mark. 15:46; John. 19:41).
Remember this: It was already between the evenings when Joseph got permission from Pilate to take the body.
By the time they got the body buried, it would have been at sunset going into the night and the Sabbath (which started the next morning) was drawing near (Luke 23:54).
Luke 23:54 (King James Version)
54 And that day was the preparation, and the Sabbath drew on.
Let’s look up the words “drew on” …
to grow light, to dawn
http://kingdominfo.net/truth/?p=5
Nothing here about eternal darkness.
That same word epiphosko is also used in Matthew 28:1.
In Luke it is a figurative dawn and in Matthew it is a literal dawn (daybreak).
nothing here about light before light being made
Do you think the sun is 6000 years old?
When we pick up the story in Genesis 1 was the earth without form and void?
Its less about what I think more about what it says
sun created, (some say appointed) on the 4th day...
sun worship creates wrinkles, skin cancer and pre mature aging...of the sun...lol...all those years of being worshipped aged it prematurely
and it does say
The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep.
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So you are starting with an earth that already exists in that darkness covered the waters of the earth. You presume the darkness was caused by lack of the sun but clouds cause darkness just like they did at Jesus' crucifixion.
The earth when it was originally created by God was not without form and void. He created it to be inhabited, not without form and void and dark.
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens, God himself that formed the earth and made it, he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited; I am the LORD and there is none else. (Isaiah 45:18)
At the original creation the angels sang for joy.
When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:7)
Genesis 1 is about the earth refashioned for mankind and the creation of the Sabbath day.
Again
Verse 2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
Without form is exactly that, not round, not square, not flat, probably without substance as the place god would hang the planet was well, void- and waters could be vaporous gases just floating in a void
During the crucifixion the sun's light failed-
Darkness pre creation resulted from no light being created and no greater or lesser lights made or appointed-
there is still light with cloud cover
Says you
Says scripture: "And the earth was without form, and void; "
yes to have no form to be void and dark was not the intention of his creation
Right, but before all that it was
"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
not sure what you are driving at
Gap theory?
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c003.html
you are forgetting its without form and void...
earth as you know it is spherical which is a form...
void means, well, void not just empty of plants and animals but VOID...nothing there except water
this water was unseparated from what? from the cosmos apparently as it took another act of creation to do that...
ahh yes there is that other action occurring on another day...
I encourage you to google biblegateway and see how many ways firmament is actually translated...including vault, dome, expanse...
water separated in the midst...so there is a limit to this expanse
day two merely separated the waters...vapor, steam, liquid, ice,
and if you think its liquid water then up until now its all been underwater...
now finally we have water above and water below...
so far, all this could happen on a plane or on a cube
recall the "four corners of the world"?
so far, all we have is water...a big water puddle hanging in "space"...no mention of land to contain it
the translation into dome is the first indication of any shape to the "without form and void" of earth...but its not always translated as such
and a dome can occur on a flat plane, on the side of a pyramid, cube etc there still is no clarification to the shape of the earth
On day three when the water was separated from land (first mentioned) and gathered together in one place is when a better indication as too what else the water needed to contain itself can be made...and still the form of the earth is not clarified...
they stuck with "four corners" for a really long time
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The point is the creation story in Genesis begins with an already existing earth covered by water.
This is water not ice which means the temperature was moderate. If the temperature was moderate there had to be a source of heat for the planet. Water evaporates and becomes clouds. Clouds obscure the sun resulting in darkness.
The Spirit of God hovered over the waters in the darkness with a plan, a plan of spiritual reproduction. God and Christ would reproduce themselves with beings capable of reproducing themselves.
The two had created angels for the purpose of ministering to these reproductive beings. Angels do not reproduce. They are servants to those who would become the heirs with Christ of creation.
This is water not ice which means the temperature was moderate. If the temperature was moderate there had to be a source of heat for the planet. Water evaporates and becomes clouds. Clouds obscure the sun resulting in darkness.
The Spirit of God hovered over the waters in the darkness with a plan, a plan of spiritual reproduction. God and Christ would reproduce themselves with beings capable of reproducing themselves.
The two had created angels for the purpose of ministering to these reproductive beings. Angels do not reproduce. They are servants to those who would become the heirs with Christ of creation.
I have found the study of ancient history and first-century culture in Roman times in the middle east have deepened my faith in Jesus.
I am now making sense of a lot that I couldn't make sense of before.
I think it's cool you are trying to follow the truth wherever it leads you.
I am now making sense of a lot that I couldn't make sense of before.
I think it's cool you are trying to follow the truth wherever it leads you.
Saved.One.by.Grace
New member
again that is not what scripture says...you assume earth as a planet formed in a sphere covered by liquid water...but that is a form and certainly not void
scripture says it was without form and void...there was darkness in the deep and waters had a face
again... that there was no light does not mean the light was covered...
light was created/made...not uncovered
as to the rest of your post
yes , there was intent....a plan...
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where are you going with this...?
gap theory? a world existed and was destroyed before the genesis creation account?
waste and empty is full of undivided water?
there's no mention of temperature...and clouds are part of the separation of waters into the firmament, dome, vault on day two
and it didn't rain until noah's day...so were there clouds?
sun was created on day four...
where are you going with all this?
Who would believe that? It would be easier to trick people into believing that the earth is only six thousand years old and that photons do not have a finite speed.