There Are No Rules In War?
- Thread starter Arthur Brain
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musterion
Well-known member
No, he hasn't. My point is, do you think He now considers a nation unjust for retaliating against another that has attacked it?
...as long as they don't happen to have been Republican Presidents and Vice Presidents. Then they get a pass.
Gowdy's a partisan hack, and little more. That's why he was chosen to chair the Benghazi committee, and it's why he's attacking the President's executive action. The fact that you can see it as non-partisan is stunning.
He can't nullify a law. It's not just not in his Constitutional powers, it isn't possible for him to do. He is chosing how he enforces the law, by focusing deportation efforts on criminals rather than families, and calling on Congress to act to give us a less effemoral reform.
And what would you have Obama do? Deport the millions of people who theoretically could be? People who have nowhere to go back to? People whose only family is here and who have lived nearly their whole lives as Americans? That's an insane policy, for my money.
Every President issues executive orders, and each is novel in some way. And they must comport with the law and the reasonable construction of the President's authority. Obama has not been especially active issuing these orders.
Apparently you think the President has the authority of "pass down" legal authority to violate the Geneva Conventions. But that wasn't Obama doing that.
Perhaps Congress should pass immigration reform with mandatory enforcement mechanisms in it.
A lot of anti-discrimination laws have no nexus for executive action, because a lot of them provide for civil actions. As you know, the President cannot alter the law, so he can't really do anything about these cases. Those that do, hate crime laws perhaps, are routinely the subject of prosecutorial discretion, and they will likely continue to be.
No, I want Obama to allow prosecution of torture cases, however high they reach.
I would disagree, but only a court of law can really settle that.
Prove it. What are you basing that on? Liberals aren't any more able to authorize torture than conservatives are, but I'm really curious what you actually are referring to, or if you even know.
I want names here. Who was briefed?
There's no statute of limitations on the Geneva Conventions, nor I suspect on federal prohibitions on torture.
That's specious and you know it. Let me know when you have some actual evidence, and not just speculation.
I'm not saying what the IRS did was right. But the evidence just isn't there to implicate anyone outside the IRS.
Which would you like done to you, to prove your point?
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html
Alright, that's what I thought. So really, there was the executive branch, and then a couple of committees, which I believe were controlled by the GOP at the time.
Because the courts are responsible for interpreting the law. Everyone having their own private definitions of laws would be to make nonsense of the concept of law in the first place.
And as I said before, the executive branch cannot nullify a law. They can make choices about how to enforce it, but a different executive might make a different choice. It is unusual for prosecutorial discretion to be exercised directly from the office of the President, but it is perfectly lawful, and our system of laws guarantees that a different person will soon be in a position to make that call.
I'm not exactly sure what that could possibly mean. What "standard"? There is no process under the Geneva Conventions under which can authorize torture. It doesn't matter if Diane Feinstein signed an authorization in blood, that wouldn't make it legal. And exactly what were Congresspeople supposed to do about it?
After World War II, multiple cases.
www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/40/1738626.html
You're probably right about that, sadly.
That's simply not true. We prosecuted people for the same, and for milder things. And it's no great compliment to say that we're better than ISIS or the Nazis.
This Charming Manc
Well-known member
The question is does he think a nation virtuous for showing restraint within its response.
The law limited response to violence with proportionality, the new testament asks for restraint.
Nation states are different as they have responsibilities to its citizens, and a more complex range of issues to look at, however to my mind the question is what is the minimal amount of violence we can use to fulfill our responsibilities.
I know I haven't answered you question, but in the NT to ask 'can i/we get away' with it is the wrong question. The questions should be
however if you have ditched the sermon on the mount and the other moral teaching of Jesus as not relevant to you, you loose that moral compass.
The law limited response to violence with proportionality, the new testament asks for restraint.
Nation states are different as they have responsibilities to its citizens, and a more complex range of issues to look at, however to my mind the question is what is the minimal amount of violence we can use to fulfill our responsibilities.
I know I haven't answered you question, but in the NT to ask 'can i/we get away' with it is the wrong question. The questions should be
- is wise
- is it just
- is it merciful
- does it bring life or death
- does it reflect the values of the God of the cross
however if you have ditched the sermon on the mount and the other moral teaching of Jesus as not relevant to you, you loose that moral compass.
Matthew 4:43-48
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect"
Mark 11:25
25 "And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses."
Luke 6:27
27 "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you."
Acts 7:55-60
55 "But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him,58
dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep (died)."
Ephesians 4:32
32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
http://www.christianpost.com/buzzvi...-in-spite-of-everything-125406/#ixzz3MxmIICDY
"To wipe out pagan nations of men, women and children" dies not reflect the message being delivered by Jesus in the New Testament.
Christ has said that how we would judge our "neighbors," including those who hate us, is a reflection as to how we can expect to be judged by God!"
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i gave you information on seven leaders of the japanese who were executed for war crimes
can you post (not link to - do a copy and paste) information on other japanese soldiers who were executed for waterboarding?
depends on what kind of a war it is
if the civilian population is essential in supporting the war effort of your enemy, they are a fair target
if we find areas of syria that are hiding, feeding, arming, providing logistical support to isis, why shouldn't they be considered justifiable targets?
Matthew 4:43-48
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect"
- Love your neighbor
- love your enemies
- pray for those who persecute you
- If you love those who love you, what reward will you get
- if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
"Resodko's" comments contradict what Christ has commanded his followers to do.
When we love only those "neighbors" who love us - how does that distinguish us from the "pagans?"
Mainstreamers don't know what Jesus teaches and commands, and claim to be saved and true Christians.
that's why they have no qualm about killing their enemy, and join the military.
Lexington'96
New member
Would you be okay with another nation's military applying the same logic towards the US?
To justify torture and murder based on what another nation may or may not do is expedient in the short term, but it also violates everything the Bible teaches.
If Christians can't adhere to a higher standard of morals and ethics during difficult times, then what distinguishes their faith from all the others?
they did in ww2, at least with our allies :idunno:
should a munitions factory be a fair target?
what about the civilians who work there?
in what way should we have shown our "love" for the germans while they attempted to subjugate all of europe to their will and wipe out the jews?
"All is fair in love and war" John Lyly
Well without those pesky "rules" such things as atrocities and genocide would simply be par for the course. Do away with war crimes and see how bad it gets.
It's a point worth repeating that we executed Japanese and German personnel for doing less than what we've admitted to doing on record. This is a real Pogo moment.
To see so many of my countrymen whole-heartedly support torture sickens, embarrasses, and even frightens me. This CIA torture program has set the stage for these practices to be standard operating procedure on American citizens. I can't think of a single country out there that normalized torture against perceived "enemies" and then didn't wind up using those same practices against their own people. It's inevitable.
It's a point worth repeating that we executed Japanese and German personnel for doing less than what we've admitted to doing on record. This is a real Pogo moment.
To see so many of my countrymen whole-heartedly support torture sickens, embarrasses, and even frightens me. This CIA torture program has set the stage for these practices to be standard operating procedure on American citizens. I can't think of a single country out there that normalized torture against perceived "enemies" and then didn't wind up using those same practices against their own people. It's inevitable.
and granite adds his lying voice to the leftist clamour:
yes, I suppose if you don't mind being seen to be a drooling retard and think that you might gain some traction with your lie, it might well seem to be worth repeating :thumb:
:mock:granite, the drooling leftist retard
drbrumley
Well-known member
Use of torture is not only illegal but also it is a poor technique that yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say what he thinks the Intelligence collector wants to hear. Use of torture can also have many possible negative consequences at national and international levels.
gcthomas
New member
Most Germans were civilian out ordinary conscripts, just like the Americans, and many no different. After the war, we helped feed and house the Germans and helped to rebuild their economy, government and infrastructure.
It was the leaders we tried, along with those who had tortured and abused detainees.