Do you not know how to post links?lightninboy said::bang: :yawn:
The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace
- Thread starter Bob Hill
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lightninboy
Member
Dear Lighthouse,
You have over 14,000 posts of experience on TOL.
Just quit the thread if you don't want to learn from reading it.
You have over 14,000 posts of experience on TOL.
Just quit the thread if you don't want to learn from reading it.
lightninboy
Member
Bob Hill on the Book of Hebrews:
The purpose of this circumcision epistle, Hebrews, was to show “Messianic Jews” the eternal priesthood of the Lord Jesus. It also has many warning passages reiterating the conditional aspects of the gospel and the dangers of falling away. The author was preparing these circumcision believers for the coming tribulation.
A few of these passages are: Heb 3:6 But Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.”
Heb 3:14 “For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.”
Heb 6:4-12. Were these people saved? Today we can say, “I’m saved” (Acts 16:31). But under the covenant of circumcision and its gospel, they didn’t know enough to say what we mean when we say, “We’re saved.” We mean, “I know that I’m going to heaven no matter what.” We can say that because we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30). They couldn’t say that. Circumcision believers were in a process of salvation. They had to believe, hold fast, endure to the end, abide in Him and keep the commandments in order to be saved (Mat. 24:13,14; John 15:5,6; 1 John 2:3; 1 Pet. 1:5).
Heb 10:26-31. Can we sin willfully and lose our salvation? No, but those who received the Hebrews letter could. Willful sin was a real problem because there no longer was a sacrifice for it. They had a condition for sanctification. There is no longer a sacrifice because the sacrifice has already been made, and they, now, have rejected Him. Therefore, in Hebrews, true converts could fall from salvation. The receivers of this epistle were aware of the severe warning. They heard, “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Heb 10:31). What did they have to look forward to if they sinned willfully? Nothing but “a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries” (Heb 10:27). The punishment here is so severe because their knowledge is so complete. Compare Hebrews 10:16 with 1 John 2:20,27. The knowledge aspects of the new covenant are in place for them. In Hebrews 10:29, we see that even though they were sanctified, their punishment would be “much worse” than someone who had never believed. They could still believe. These apostates could not.
The material in Hebrews is so different because it is addressing believers in a dispensation different from those addressed in Paul’s epistles.
I suspect this is falsehood pure and simple.
Compare this to my posts in the thread Hebrews 6 posted by CarlU in Exclusively Christian Theology.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35020
The purpose of this circumcision epistle, Hebrews, was to show “Messianic Jews” the eternal priesthood of the Lord Jesus. It also has many warning passages reiterating the conditional aspects of the gospel and the dangers of falling away. The author was preparing these circumcision believers for the coming tribulation.
A few of these passages are: Heb 3:6 But Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.”
Heb 3:14 “For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.”
Heb 6:4-12. Were these people saved? Today we can say, “I’m saved” (Acts 16:31). But under the covenant of circumcision and its gospel, they didn’t know enough to say what we mean when we say, “We’re saved.” We mean, “I know that I’m going to heaven no matter what.” We can say that because we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30). They couldn’t say that. Circumcision believers were in a process of salvation. They had to believe, hold fast, endure to the end, abide in Him and keep the commandments in order to be saved (Mat. 24:13,14; John 15:5,6; 1 John 2:3; 1 Pet. 1:5).
Heb 10:26-31. Can we sin willfully and lose our salvation? No, but those who received the Hebrews letter could. Willful sin was a real problem because there no longer was a sacrifice for it. They had a condition for sanctification. There is no longer a sacrifice because the sacrifice has already been made, and they, now, have rejected Him. Therefore, in Hebrews, true converts could fall from salvation. The receivers of this epistle were aware of the severe warning. They heard, “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Heb 10:31). What did they have to look forward to if they sinned willfully? Nothing but “a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries” (Heb 10:27). The punishment here is so severe because their knowledge is so complete. Compare Hebrews 10:16 with 1 John 2:20,27. The knowledge aspects of the new covenant are in place for them. In Hebrews 10:29, we see that even though they were sanctified, their punishment would be “much worse” than someone who had never believed. They could still believe. These apostates could not.
The material in Hebrews is so different because it is addressing believers in a dispensation different from those addressed in Paul’s epistles.
I suspect this is falsehood pure and simple.
Compare this to my posts in the thread Hebrews 6 posted by CarlU in Exclusively Christian Theology.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35020
patman
Active member
lightninboy said:
I have a feeling you will always be frustrated by this without Mid Acts to help.
Paul gave the answer as to why God didn't tell Peter, or anyone else for that matter when he wrote this:
Ephesians 3
1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.
Note the bolded text above. God gave this the message for the Gentiles to Paul. Paul plainly says it above. He also says it wasn't revealed before, but NOW is shown to the apostles. Not before, not during the other ages, now, in the dispensation of Grace. Paul is the minister of this message.
Peter wasn't. None of the other apostles were ministers of it, it was Paul who was given it.
Here is more evidence that Grace was not made known to the apostles until after Paul:
Galatians 2
1 Then after fourteen years I [Paul] went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage), 5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6 But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. 7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8(for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
The 12 were always taught to go to the Jews, all along, and they taught law. Paul came along and taught Grace, no law, to the Gentiles. They agreed that their audience was different, and to take their messages to their right audiences. Note that Peter was given the gospel for the circumcised.
The word Gospel means good news. The news, itself, is the same, that Jesus died to save sinners. But to one group, that salvation was available by faith and sustained by Grace, the other Group salvation was available by faith and sustained by works.
I know the desire to teach and to be right is strong inside, I too had to renounce Acts 2, and doing so opened my eyes to the Bible.
#168 One of the primary purposes of the Law was to declare what is right and what is wrong. So the Law was designed to bring us to brokenness.
Close enough... The law showed us we were broken.
#170 Salvation in the old covenant was not limited to the circumcised.
Salvation has always been about having faith in what God tells you. The hearers of the law needed to have faith in it and follow it to gain salvation. Those who never heard the law were to have faith in whatever message God revealed to them. So yes, you could be saved without the Mosaic law, but you still had to abide in faith in what God told you about, AND only if you never heard the law.
Salvation came by faith, abiding by the law sustained that faith for that dispensation.
#171 The covenant of grace supersedes the covenant of the law and thus abolishes the law as a supposed way of salvation. The law can never give salvation; in fact, the law does not make a man an heir, it makes him a criminal who deserves the wrath of God.
Not exactly. The following the law is not possible, and so salvation by following it is impossible, but that fact never means that you are free from following the law. It just means It won't save you. What will save you is your faith in the revelation God gave you, and that salvation is made possible by Jesus' death - whether you knew that or not.
The law had built into it a means of gaining forgiveness, which was sacrifice. That was fulfilled later by Jesus. So by keeping the fulfilled law, even when you broke it, you were realizing the faith you had In Jesus and that was accounted to you as righteous, so long as you tried to keep the law.
But when God went to the Gentiles, he just allowed faith to be sustained by Grace. It was Paul who was given this message. Not before.
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
Paul was given a dispensation that was a mystery, never revealed before, the Dispensation of Grace. 1 Cor 9:17-18 For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a dispensation. 18 What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.
Eph 3:1-4 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles; 2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
We find in Acts 15 that Paul went up to Jerusalem to tell them about the new gospel that God gave to him according to Gal 1:11-2:10. The Holy Spirit showed the apostles that Paul’s gospel was valid at that council.
Eph 1:5-10 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 [Here’s the mystery which was never made before God raised up the Apostle Paul.] that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the Dispensation of the Mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ. 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one, the all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him.
This gospel that was given to Paul was a different gospel from anything before. That’s what the Galatian material is all about: Gal 2:7-9 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision had been committed to me, as the gospel of the circumcision was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for [eis] the apostleship of the circumcision also worked effectively in me toward [eis] the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to [eis] the Gentiles and they to [eis] the circumcision.
Paul was faithful to this new program that God gave him. It tells us of his faithfulness in Col 1:24-29: I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. 29 To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily.
Unfortunately, many of those posting on TOL are not faithful to the doctrine God gave to Paul. We should be faithful to this dispensational program that God gave Paul for us. Most do not even know that the Bible places so much importance on the Dispensation of the Mystery. Most Christians are not even aware that God says we all “should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the Dispensation of the Mystery.”
Because of this, there are 2 spheres where believers go when they die. For those who were saved before Paul, the circumcision and proselytes, they go into the kingdom promised to David. Christ will be the king.
For the body of Christ of this dispensation of grace, we have a heavenly hope. Phi 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.
There are extremely important, major differences between our Dispensation of Grace and the Circumcision Dispensation. Works for salvation and water baptism are two of the big differences between the circumcision gospel and the gospel that God gave to Paul.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Eph 3:1-4 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles; 2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
We find in Acts 15 that Paul went up to Jerusalem to tell them about the new gospel that God gave to him according to Gal 1:11-2:10. The Holy Spirit showed the apostles that Paul’s gospel was valid at that council.
Eph 1:5-10 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 [Here’s the mystery which was never made before God raised up the Apostle Paul.] that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the Dispensation of the Mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ. 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one, the all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him.
This gospel that was given to Paul was a different gospel from anything before. That’s what the Galatian material is all about: Gal 2:7-9 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision had been committed to me, as the gospel of the circumcision was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for [eis] the apostleship of the circumcision also worked effectively in me toward [eis] the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to [eis] the Gentiles and they to [eis] the circumcision.
Paul was faithful to this new program that God gave him. It tells us of his faithfulness in Col 1:24-29: I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. 29 To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily.
Unfortunately, many of those posting on TOL are not faithful to the doctrine God gave to Paul. We should be faithful to this dispensational program that God gave Paul for us. Most do not even know that the Bible places so much importance on the Dispensation of the Mystery. Most Christians are not even aware that God says we all “should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the Dispensation of the Mystery.”
Because of this, there are 2 spheres where believers go when they die. For those who were saved before Paul, the circumcision and proselytes, they go into the kingdom promised to David. Christ will be the king.
For the body of Christ of this dispensation of grace, we have a heavenly hope. Phi 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.
There are extremely important, major differences between our Dispensation of Grace and the Circumcision Dispensation. Works for salvation and water baptism are two of the big differences between the circumcision gospel and the gospel that God gave to Paul.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
lightninboy
Member
The MAD view of the Book of James:
James vs. Paul
Rightly dividing the Word of Truth explains, clearly and simply, many of the seeming contradictions in God's Word. This is nowhere more evident than when comparing the writings of James with those of Paul. In several very critical areas, James and Paul give diametrically opposed instruction. Without an understanding of the Biblical principles of right division, we have no hope of obeying the Word of God because obeying one writer causes us to disobey another.
The Book of Straw
"The Epistle of Straw" is a phrase the great reformer Martin Luther is said to have used in reference to the book of James. As Luther studied Paul's writings, especially the book of Romans, he came to understand the revolutionary truth of justification by grace through faith without the works of the law. He was unable to reconcile this seeming contradiction to James' writings. As a result he began to question whether or not the book of James even belonged in the canon of Scripture.
The book of James is specifically addressed to members of the nation Israel.
The people to whom James wrote were still living under the commandments and ordinances of the law.
And when they [James and the elders at Jerusalem] heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him [Paul], Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: Acts 21:20
James vs. Paul; Salvation
The most serious area of disagreement between James and Paul is their explanation of salvation. James indicates that good works must be added to faith to produce salvation.
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? James 2:17-20
Paul gives a different explanation of salvation. Paul not only teaches that works are unnecessary for salvation, he specifically excludes works from the salvation process.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4:4,5
These two explanations of salvation are in conflict. What makes the disagreement between Paul and James even more perplexing is that both men point to Abraham as a validation of their teaching.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? James 2: 21,22
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Romans 4:2,3
Paul points to a time when Abraham's faith required him to do nothing. He was simply to wait for the promised seed. In fact, when Abraham tried to help God's plan along, the results were disastrous. (See Genesis 16) James, on the other hand, points to a time when Abraham's faith required him to do something. He had to physically take his son into Moriah and offer him as a sacrifice to the Lord. The principle here is if God says "don't do," then faith doesn't do. If God says "do," then faith does. To the circumcision God said "do." To the uncircumcision, he said, "don't do." This is why Paul used two different terms when describing the faith of the circumcision and the uncircumcision.
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Romans 3:29,30
It is significant that between the two events referred to above, another very important event took place in Abraham's life. In Genesis 17, God instituted circumcision as a sign of the Abrahamic Covenant. Paul uses Abraham in uncircumcision as an example of justification by faith without the works of the law. James uses Abraham in circumcision as an example of justification by faith plus the works of the law. Paul discusses and explains this dual fatherhood of Abraham in detail in the fourth chapter of Romans.
When we rightly divide the Word of Truth, the conflict between James and Paul concerning salvation is easily resolved.
The Acts 2 Dispensationalism view of the Book of James:
We see in the New Testament that Paul spoke of the ROOT of Abraham's faith; BUT, James spoke of the FRUIT of Abraham's faith. James is simply saying that if a person is genuinely saved by faith, then there should be some FRUIT (good works) in that person's life to show it. BUT, James was NOT teaching that works are necessary to be saved--they aren't! Abraham was saved by faith ALONE! Titus 3:5 clearly states, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..."
With God we are justified by FAITH; BUT with men we are justified by WORKS. The reason is simply because mankind cannot see out heart; but God can.
King David killed an innocent man (Uriah) to hide an unwanted pregnancy from an affair with the man's wife (Bathsheba). Would you have thought David was a Christian at that moment? Of course not! But David was a Christian, who had sinned horribly.
James vs. Paul
Rightly dividing the Word of Truth explains, clearly and simply, many of the seeming contradictions in God's Word. This is nowhere more evident than when comparing the writings of James with those of Paul. In several very critical areas, James and Paul give diametrically opposed instruction. Without an understanding of the Biblical principles of right division, we have no hope of obeying the Word of God because obeying one writer causes us to disobey another.
The Book of Straw
"The Epistle of Straw" is a phrase the great reformer Martin Luther is said to have used in reference to the book of James. As Luther studied Paul's writings, especially the book of Romans, he came to understand the revolutionary truth of justification by grace through faith without the works of the law. He was unable to reconcile this seeming contradiction to James' writings. As a result he began to question whether or not the book of James even belonged in the canon of Scripture.
The book of James is specifically addressed to members of the nation Israel.
The people to whom James wrote were still living under the commandments and ordinances of the law.
And when they [James and the elders at Jerusalem] heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him [Paul], Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: Acts 21:20
James vs. Paul; Salvation
The most serious area of disagreement between James and Paul is their explanation of salvation. James indicates that good works must be added to faith to produce salvation.
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? James 2:17-20
Paul gives a different explanation of salvation. Paul not only teaches that works are unnecessary for salvation, he specifically excludes works from the salvation process.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4:4,5
These two explanations of salvation are in conflict. What makes the disagreement between Paul and James even more perplexing is that both men point to Abraham as a validation of their teaching.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? James 2: 21,22
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Romans 4:2,3
Paul points to a time when Abraham's faith required him to do nothing. He was simply to wait for the promised seed. In fact, when Abraham tried to help God's plan along, the results were disastrous. (See Genesis 16) James, on the other hand, points to a time when Abraham's faith required him to do something. He had to physically take his son into Moriah and offer him as a sacrifice to the Lord. The principle here is if God says "don't do," then faith doesn't do. If God says "do," then faith does. To the circumcision God said "do." To the uncircumcision, he said, "don't do." This is why Paul used two different terms when describing the faith of the circumcision and the uncircumcision.
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Romans 3:29,30
It is significant that between the two events referred to above, another very important event took place in Abraham's life. In Genesis 17, God instituted circumcision as a sign of the Abrahamic Covenant. Paul uses Abraham in uncircumcision as an example of justification by faith without the works of the law. James uses Abraham in circumcision as an example of justification by faith plus the works of the law. Paul discusses and explains this dual fatherhood of Abraham in detail in the fourth chapter of Romans.
When we rightly divide the Word of Truth, the conflict between James and Paul concerning salvation is easily resolved.
The Acts 2 Dispensationalism view of the Book of James:
We see in the New Testament that Paul spoke of the ROOT of Abraham's faith; BUT, James spoke of the FRUIT of Abraham's faith. James is simply saying that if a person is genuinely saved by faith, then there should be some FRUIT (good works) in that person's life to show it. BUT, James was NOT teaching that works are necessary to be saved--they aren't! Abraham was saved by faith ALONE! Titus 3:5 clearly states, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..."
With God we are justified by FAITH; BUT with men we are justified by WORKS. The reason is simply because mankind cannot see out heart; but God can.
King David killed an innocent man (Uriah) to hide an unwanted pregnancy from an affair with the man's wife (Bathsheba). Would you have thought David was a Christian at that moment? Of course not! But David was a Christian, who had sinned horribly.
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
Paul was inspired by God to show how to be saved in the Dispensation of Grace.
1 Co 15:1-4: “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you -- unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.” That salvation depended on believing certain things. He wrote, under inspiration, that the gospel of salvation in the dispensation of Grace rested on the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ.
The Dispensation of Grace began with the Apostle Paul. He wrote in 1 Co 9:17,18 “For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a dispensation. 18 What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.”
In Eph 1:7-12, he wrote about this Dispensation of the Mystery: “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.”
He showed the basis of salvation in Eph 3:1-6 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles - 2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel.
All of the events up to and including Pentecost were about the Messianic Kingdom of which Peter had the keys. None of those events were about the Body of Christ. In fact, when Peter was preaching on the day of Pentecost, the method God gave him included water baptism for salvation: Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
In contrast, here are the Pauline passages that show salvation in the Dispensation of Grace only required faith and belief in Christ as Savior.
Acts 16:30,31 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Rom 1:16,17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
Rom 5:9-11 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Rom 10:8-13 “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
1 Co 3:9-15 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Eph 1:13,14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Eph 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Titus 3:4-7 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
1 Co 15:1-4: “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you -- unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.” That salvation depended on believing certain things. He wrote, under inspiration, that the gospel of salvation in the dispensation of Grace rested on the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ.
The Dispensation of Grace began with the Apostle Paul. He wrote in 1 Co 9:17,18 “For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a dispensation. 18 What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.”
In Eph 1:7-12, he wrote about this Dispensation of the Mystery: “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.”
He showed the basis of salvation in Eph 3:1-6 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles - 2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel.
All of the events up to and including Pentecost were about the Messianic Kingdom of which Peter had the keys. None of those events were about the Body of Christ. In fact, when Peter was preaching on the day of Pentecost, the method God gave him included water baptism for salvation: Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
In contrast, here are the Pauline passages that show salvation in the Dispensation of Grace only required faith and belief in Christ as Savior.
Acts 16:30,31 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Rom 1:16,17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
Rom 5:9-11 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Rom 10:8-13 “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
1 Co 3:9-15 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Eph 1:13,14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Eph 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Titus 3:4-7 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
lightninboy
Member
Dear patman,
Thank you for your reply.
I said I was looking for the answer about Peter and the Gentiles. And did you read posts #755, #758 and #760?
What denomination did you go to?
#168: You said you agreed.
#170: I suspect you are wrong. Melchizedek and Nebuchadnezzar come to mind.
#171: Here is the link it came from. It is backed up by Scripture.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...cumcision+salvation&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=51
Here’s the next old post for you to critique:
#196 The law did not provide eternal salvation at all but rather offered temporal purification for the Jews (Hebrews 9:13-14)
Because the utter sinfulness of man makes him absolutely incapable of having any part in earning his own salvation (Romans 3:21-23, 10-18; Psalm 14:1-3; Ecclesiastes 7:20; Isaiah 64:6)
If merit allows a man to glory in earning his salvation and this kind of glorying is wrong, then why is it wrong for us but all right for those in other dispensations?
If merit was wrong for Abraham (Romans 4:2), the great Old Testament saint who was called the friend of God (James 2:23), then why is it all right for other Old Testament saints?
Because works-salvation makes God a debtor to man, something He can never be. (Romans 4:3-5; 11:35)
Second, even under the law, men came to God ultimately by faith. Even
though their faith might be expressed in works (as ours should be), it
was still faith that got God's attention.
With the exception of Judas, the apostles were certainly saved during the lifetime of Christ, though I would not speculate as to the exact time.
Thank you for your reply.
I said I was looking for the answer about Peter and the Gentiles. And did you read posts #755, #758 and #760?
What denomination did you go to?
#168: You said you agreed.
#170: I suspect you are wrong. Melchizedek and Nebuchadnezzar come to mind.
#171: Here is the link it came from. It is backed up by Scripture.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...cumcision+salvation&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=51
Here’s the next old post for you to critique:
#196 The law did not provide eternal salvation at all but rather offered temporal purification for the Jews (Hebrews 9:13-14)
Because the utter sinfulness of man makes him absolutely incapable of having any part in earning his own salvation (Romans 3:21-23, 10-18; Psalm 14:1-3; Ecclesiastes 7:20; Isaiah 64:6)
If merit allows a man to glory in earning his salvation and this kind of glorying is wrong, then why is it wrong for us but all right for those in other dispensations?
If merit was wrong for Abraham (Romans 4:2), the great Old Testament saint who was called the friend of God (James 2:23), then why is it all right for other Old Testament saints?
Because works-salvation makes God a debtor to man, something He can never be. (Romans 4:3-5; 11:35)
Second, even under the law, men came to God ultimately by faith. Even
though their faith might be expressed in works (as ours should be), it
was still faith that got God's attention.
With the exception of Judas, the apostles were certainly saved during the lifetime of Christ, though I would not speculate as to the exact time.
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
When referring to the dispensation of the mystery, and you are trying to find the phrase “dispensation of the mystery” in the Bible, you’ll find you cannot find it.
You can’t find it without an understanding of Greek. It is found in the Greek of Eph 3:9: “and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ”. However, you can see that the Greek word for dispensation is not there. The word that is there is the kononia of the mystery rather than the okonomia of the mystery, but that is the reading of only the Textus Receptus which is based on very few manuscripts. Both the Majority Text and the Critical Text show the second Greek text above. That phrase is translated, “the dispensation of the mystery”.
Here are a number of other translations.
Darby: and to enlighten all with the knowledge of what is the administration of the mystery hidden throughout the ages in God, who has created all things
ASV: and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things
NASB: and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things
NIV: and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
Any of these translations are OK, but I prefer to use the NKJV with a few corrections: and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created the all things through Jesus Christ. :beanboy:
In Christ,
Bob Hill
You can’t find it without an understanding of Greek. It is found in the Greek of Eph 3:9: “and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ”. However, you can see that the Greek word for dispensation is not there. The word that is there is the kononia of the mystery rather than the okonomia of the mystery, but that is the reading of only the Textus Receptus which is based on very few manuscripts. Both the Majority Text and the Critical Text show the second Greek text above. That phrase is translated, “the dispensation of the mystery”.
Here are a number of other translations.
Darby: and to enlighten all with the knowledge of what is the administration of the mystery hidden throughout the ages in God, who has created all things
ASV: and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things
NASB: and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things
NIV: and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
Any of these translations are OK, but I prefer to use the NKJV with a few corrections: and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created the all things through Jesus Christ. :beanboy:
In Christ,
Bob Hill
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Clete said:
I am not saying Paul's gospel is based on the 10 commandments?! Romans is about the gospel. Ephesians 4-6 is about Christian living subsequent to justification by grace through faith. I made the observation that the principles of the law are repeated by Paul, not in order to be saved, but because we are saved.
patman
Active member
lightninboy said:
lightinboy,
I am convinced that MAD is more accurate than Acts 2, having come from that camp and now residing in MAD's camp. It will take something very dramatic for me to change my mind at this point.
Christ's words would have shown to not meant anything close to what he said. And many on this thread try to say that. Peter would have to understand Grace before Paul did, but that didn't happen, and Paul would have to not claim the message of Grace for the gentiles as his.
Then the entire book of prophecy of Daniel shows that God intended to end thing 7 years after Christ, and Pauls entering the scene with the mystery further ties into that.
Your example of Nebuchadnezzar is not going to hold up. Especially when there is scripture talking about how men are saved when they were not hearers of the law.
Nebuchadnezzar never heard the entire law, but he believed what he was told by God in parts of the Bible. The law was effectively lost during the 70+ years of captivity and was rediscovered by the jews after they moved back to Israel.
I know you think I am young. But I have invested a lot of my life into study. Give me an ear. I changed to MAD after finally giving up my old understandings and it benefited me. I however was not in favor of any theology. I was able to weigh them against each other without bias and found MAD to be the best explanation.
It is difficult to see the need for MAD when you do not recognize that Jesus and the Apostles preached a different method of salvation than Paul did. But their message is obviously different. And the story of Acts illustrates this.
lightninboy
Member
Dear patman,
Thank you for your reply.
Here, you can answer Lighthouse’s questions:
Show me where works are required for salvation in this Acts 2 Dispensationalism beliefs statement:
http://www.dts.edu/about/doctrinalstatement/
Show me where water baptism is required for salvation by Acts 2 Dispensationalism churches in the Wikipedia article about baptism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism
Tell me what John 3:16 means.
I am interested in the Mid-Acts opinion of the Great Tribulation and End Times. Please post as much good stuff as you can about it.
Duh, you didn’t critique #196.
Thank you for your reply.
You never told me what denomination you went to. Lighthouse thought he had gone to an Acts 2 Dispensationalism church, but it turned out it had an Arminian doctrine.patman said:
Here, you can answer Lighthouse’s questions:
Show me where works are required for salvation in this Acts 2 Dispensationalism beliefs statement:
http://www.dts.edu/about/doctrinalstatement/
Show me where water baptism is required for salvation by Acts 2 Dispensationalism churches in the Wikipedia article about baptism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism
Tell me what John 3:16 means.
Jesus naturally upheld the Israelites’ duty to obey the Law, but where does He ever deny that salvation is by grace through faith plus nothing? Obeying the Law and believing God for salvation are two different things, duh. I can pick up sticks on the Sabbath and still believe God for salvation. Matthew 11:28-30 I will give you rest.patman said:
Peter was saved, wasn’t he? And he had to have been saved by grace through faith plus nothing, even if he didn’t think to take the Gospel to the Gentiles. And of course those thousands of other Israelites in the Early Church were saved by grace through faith plus nothing, remember. It was Peter who first took the Gospel to the Gentiles, remember.patman said:
Are you saying God failed and Jesus lied when He said “Behold, I come quickly”?patman said:
I am interested in the Mid-Acts opinion of the Great Tribulation and End Times. Please post as much good stuff as you can about it.
Duh, you see a need for MAD because you are MAD.patman said:
Duh, you didn’t critique #196.
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
It says that we are in the dispensation of the grace of God in Eph 3:2: if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you. According to Eph 1:3, we see that God wants to pour out spiritual blessings on us Christians. For Christians, we see that these blessings are accomplished by the Father. Eph 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.” But, it goes further. God chose us, corporately, in Christ. Eph 1:4 “in as much as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.”
What does “chose,” mean? First, Jesus Christ is the selected one. Christ is the one in and by whom the Father accomplishes all of His blessings. Isaiah 42:1 prophesied: “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.” Christ was chosen to be the redeemer, not just for Israel, but also for Gentiles.
The body of Christ was a mystery, hidden in God until He revealed it to the Apostle Paul. Eph 3:1-9 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles-- 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and mutual partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.
Colossians reiterates this: Col 1:24-27 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions for Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25&26 of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God which was given to me for you, to complete the word of God, the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory.
Returning to Eph 1:3-14, first, the whole passage: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.”
When we look at it more closely, I believe the election of men is only in Christ. When a person yields to the prompting of the Holy Spirit and believes that Christ died for him, then, he becomes a member of Christ’s body, the church. Outside of Christ, according to the Bible, there is no election of anyone. In Eph 1:4, God chose us in Christ. In verse 5, God gave the predestinated adoption to us. In verse 11, God definitely showed that we are inheritors in Christ. In verse 13, God sealed us in Christ. Therefore, we see love and blessings here, not fatalism.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
What does “chose,” mean? First, Jesus Christ is the selected one. Christ is the one in and by whom the Father accomplishes all of His blessings. Isaiah 42:1 prophesied: “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.” Christ was chosen to be the redeemer, not just for Israel, but also for Gentiles.
The body of Christ was a mystery, hidden in God until He revealed it to the Apostle Paul. Eph 3:1-9 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles-- 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and mutual partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.
Colossians reiterates this: Col 1:24-27 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions for Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25&26 of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God which was given to me for you, to complete the word of God, the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory.
Returning to Eph 1:3-14, first, the whole passage: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.”
When we look at it more closely, I believe the election of men is only in Christ. When a person yields to the prompting of the Holy Spirit and believes that Christ died for him, then, he becomes a member of Christ’s body, the church. Outside of Christ, according to the Bible, there is no election of anyone. In Eph 1:4, God chose us in Christ. In verse 5, God gave the predestinated adoption to us. In verse 11, God definitely showed that we are inheritors in Christ. In verse 13, God sealed us in Christ. Therefore, we see love and blessings here, not fatalism.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
We are chosen and sealed because we believed in Christ. Eph 1:4,12,13 “just as He chose us in Him 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.”
God didn’t choose us to be saved. He wants all to be saved, 1 Tim 2:3-6 “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
He chose us to be holy and blameless. Eph 1:4 “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, to be holy and without blame before Him in love.” He chose everyone who would believe in Christ to be holy and blameless.
Christ paid with His life. He made it certain with predestination. Eph 1:5 “having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will. And He did all this by His grace. Eph 1:6 “to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.
So, God’s election is not to salvation. It is to perfection because we are in Christ. It is for our eternal security. We who trust in Christ as our Savior have this security. This is a spiritual blessing for the body of Christ alone.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
God didn’t choose us to be saved. He wants all to be saved, 1 Tim 2:3-6 “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
He chose us to be holy and blameless. Eph 1:4 “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, to be holy and without blame before Him in love.” He chose everyone who would believe in Christ to be holy and blameless.
Christ paid with His life. He made it certain with predestination. Eph 1:5 “having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will. And He did all this by His grace. Eph 1:6 “to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.
So, God’s election is not to salvation. It is to perfection because we are in Christ. It is for our eternal security. We who trust in Christ as our Savior have this security. This is a spiritual blessing for the body of Christ alone.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
What is God’s will? I believe we can break this question down to 3 scriptural categories.
His intentional will (thelayma).
His circumstantial will (thelayma).
And His ultimate, or determinate will or counsel (boulay).
When we look at His intentional will, the first thing we should see is this. We were created for His will (pleasure).
The question we must keep in mind here, is: do we ever thwart God’s intentional will?
Rev 4:11 “You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, and by Your will they exist and were created.” Next, as part of this, He wants us all to love Him.
Mk 12:30,31 “And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.”
1 Co 16:22 “If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!”
Then, He wants us all to love one another. John 13:34 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.”
1 Th 4:9,10 “But concerning brotherly love you have no need that I should write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 and indeed you do so toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, that you increase more and more.
Remember the question we must keep in mind here: do we ever thwart God’s intentional will?
In answer, we see that He wills all to be saved. 1 Tim 2:4 “who wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
But, because man totally rebelled against God, in order to receive salvation, man must believe God and do what He says for salvation.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”
Mat 12:50 “For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”
Heb 10:36 “For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise.”
For us in this dispensation of grace, His will is found in Acts 16:31.
Acts 16:31, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.”
In Christ,
Bob Hill
His intentional will (thelayma).
His circumstantial will (thelayma).
And His ultimate, or determinate will or counsel (boulay).
When we look at His intentional will, the first thing we should see is this. We were created for His will (pleasure).
The question we must keep in mind here, is: do we ever thwart God’s intentional will?
Rev 4:11 “You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, and by Your will they exist and were created.” Next, as part of this, He wants us all to love Him.
Mk 12:30,31 “And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.”
1 Co 16:22 “If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!”
Then, He wants us all to love one another. John 13:34 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.”
1 Th 4:9,10 “But concerning brotherly love you have no need that I should write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 and indeed you do so toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, that you increase more and more.
Remember the question we must keep in mind here: do we ever thwart God’s intentional will?
In answer, we see that He wills all to be saved. 1 Tim 2:4 “who wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
But, because man totally rebelled against God, in order to receive salvation, man must believe God and do what He says for salvation.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”
Mat 12:50 “For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”
Heb 10:36 “For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise.”
For us in this dispensation of grace, His will is found in Acts 16:31.
Acts 16:31, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.”
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
The next thing we need to see is, His will is that we be holy. 1 Th 4:3-8 “For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. 8 Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.”
Do we thwart His will here?
Then, we find His will is that we function in the local body. 1 Co 12:18,20-27 But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. 20 But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. 23 And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, 24 but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, 25 that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. But many are not obeying God in this way.
It seems that many churches are presenting more fluff than God’s Word.
What do you think?
Bob
Do we thwart His will here?
Then, we find His will is that we function in the local body. 1 Co 12:18,20-27 But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. 20 But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. 23 And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, 24 but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, 25 that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. But many are not obeying God in this way.
It seems that many churches are presenting more fluff than God’s Word.
What do you think?
Bob
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
Next, we find God’s will is that we all know the mystery. It’s amazing to me how many Christians do not know what the mystery even is.
God inspired Paul to write to the Ephesians:
Eph 3:8,9 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ. But, again, most Christians do not know what the dispensation of the mystery is.
Col 1:27 “To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory.”
Again, do all Christians know “what is the dispensation of the mystery”?
And then, His will is that we teach the mystery to others.
2 Ti 2:1-2 You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
Do we have many pastors teaching the mystery? I don't think so.
This is very important in God’s view of things.
Bob Hill
What are you going to do?
God inspired Paul to write to the Ephesians:
Eph 3:8,9 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ. But, again, most Christians do not know what the dispensation of the mystery is.
Col 1:27 “To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory.”
Again, do all Christians know “what is the dispensation of the mystery”?
And then, His will is that we teach the mystery to others.
2 Ti 2:1-2 You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
Do we have many pastors teaching the mystery? I don't think so.
This is very important in God’s view of things.
Bob Hill
What are you going to do?
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
In my opinion, the next point we should see is that we should work out our salvation.
Phi 2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
As you can see by now, God’s will can be thwarted by us just as Israel thwarted God’s will for them as recorded in Psa 78:40,41.
Psa 78:40,41 How often they [Israel] provoked Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert! 41 Yes, again and again they tempted God and limited the Holy One of Israel.
Therefore, we see that God wants us to 1 Ti 4:16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
We will get a reward if we serve Him.
2 Co 5:9-11 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
Col 3:23-25 And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality.
Finally, God’s ultimate or determinate will, or counsel cannot be thwarted. Lk 22:22 “And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!” Acts 2:23 “Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death.” Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?”
And now, Eph 1:11-14 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Heb 6:17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath.
His counsel is connected with His power. Isa 46:10-11 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure,’ 11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.
His counsel makes provision for the salvation of all. 2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not counseling any to perish but all to have room for repentance.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Phi 2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
As you can see by now, God’s will can be thwarted by us just as Israel thwarted God’s will for them as recorded in Psa 78:40,41.
Psa 78:40,41 How often they [Israel] provoked Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert! 41 Yes, again and again they tempted God and limited the Holy One of Israel.
Therefore, we see that God wants us to 1 Ti 4:16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
We will get a reward if we serve Him.
2 Co 5:9-11 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
Col 3:23-25 And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality.
Finally, God’s ultimate or determinate will, or counsel cannot be thwarted. Lk 22:22 “And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!” Acts 2:23 “Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death.” Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?”
And now, Eph 1:11-14 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Heb 6:17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath.
His counsel is connected with His power. Isa 46:10-11 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure,’ 11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.
His counsel makes provision for the salvation of all. 2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not counseling any to perish but all to have room for repentance.
In Christ,
Bob Hill