The Walk-Away

[ApologeticJedi]

I agree with those that say that one cannot loose one's own salvation through sin. I don't believe we were saved on the basis of our lack of sin, so it makes little sense that we could loose our salvation by sinning.

What then, is the response to the idea that people can walk away? I'm speaking of someone who aftr accepting Jesus, decides he'd rather not spend all of eternity with God. Can someone walk away from their own salvation?

 

[Mr. 5020]

I guess that depends on whether or not humans have free will, right Christine?

 

[ShadowMaid]

When people walk away, I'm pretty sure it's because they no longer want to believe there is a God. Not just because they don't want to spend the rest of eternity with Him.

 

[ApologeticJedi]

Mr. 5020 said: “I guess that depends on whether or not humans have free will, right Christine?”

Good point.

I suppose my inquiry pre-supposes the free-will position. But for free-willers, what is the answer? Can someone loose their salvation by walking away?

ShadowMaid said "When people walk away, I'm pretty sure it's because they no longer want to believe there is a God. Not just because they don't want to spend the rest of eternity with Him. "

I think that's probably one reason people walk-away is that they cease beleiving in God. However it's too convenient to assume everyone has the exact same motives. I think some honestly don't want to live with God.

 

[Sozo]

Re: The Walk-Away

Originally posted by ApologeticJedi

I agree with those that say that one cannot loose one's own salvation through sin. I don't believe we were saved on the basis of our lack of sin, so it makes little sense that we could loose our salvation by sinning.

What then, is the response to the idea that people can walk away? I'm speaking of someone who aftr accepting Jesus, decides he'd rather not spend all of eternity with God. Can someone walk away from their own salvation?

No, they cannot. It is a 100% absolute impossibilty for anyone to undue what God has done. Free will is not all inclusive, and those who are in Christ have been purchased by the blood of Jesus, and they are not their own. The life that they have is the life of God, and Jesus said that those who have the life will NEVER perish. If they perished through an act or will of their own then Jesus would be wrong, and He is not.

 

[Sold Out]

Re: Re: The Walk-Away

Re: Re: The Walk-Away

Originally posted by Sozo

No, they cannot. It is a 100% absolute impossibilty for anyone to undue what God has done. Free will is not all inclusive, and those who are in Christ have been purchased by the blood of Jesus, and they are not their own. The life that they have is the life of God, and Jesus said that those who have the life will NEVER perish. If they perished through an act or will of their own then Jesus would be wrong, and He is not.

I agree. It is impossible to be 'unborn' spiritually, just as it is impossible to be 'unborn' physically. That is why Jesus used the term 'born again'.

There are a myriad of reasons that someone would 'walk away from the faith', and usually it is because the person was not discipled properly (or at all for that matter) and does not understand the goodness of God. As humans, our feelings change, but God never changes. Most people live life by their feelings instead of faith. Christians should be taught to focus on what Christ did for them, not what they are doing for Christ. Too many Christians get saved and never grow, so when life throws them curveballs, they throw up their hands and walk away because they were never given the tools and instruction to run their race.

 

[Crow]

Re: Re: Re: The Walk-Away

Re: Re: Re: The Walk-Away

Originally posted by Sold Out

I agree. It is impossible to be 'unborn' spiritually, just as it is impossible to be 'unborn' physically. That is why Jesus used the term 'born again'.

There are a myriad of reasons that someone would 'walk away from the faith', and usually it is because the person was not discipled properly (or at all for that matter) and does not understand the goodness of God. As humans, our feelings change, but God never changes. Most people live life by their feelings instead of faith. Christians should be taught to focus on what Christ did for them, not what they are doing for Christ. Too many Christians get saved and never grow, so when life throws them curveballs, they throw up their hands and walk away because they were never given the tools and instruction to run their race.

I've known quite a few people who left Christianity at some point, myself included. The most frequent reason I've heard was "because it just isn't true." You've got some of those ex-Christians who left and became atheists on this board--some who returned and some who didn't. Some who I think (I can't know for sure) were actually saved, and some who never were.

I know a few of the stories. You might want to ask some of them. If nothing else, it can be a pretty good warning to Christians who think that they are doing Christ's work, but in reality mucking things up--I'm not speaking of anyone in particular.

 

[Granite]

You never know what's in a person's heart.

 

[Rimi]

I've not walked away from my faith, but I've left "fellowshipping" and going to church because of other Christians. Never because of Christ Jesus. Most Christians can't handle questions because they're afraid to really see what they believe, to see if it will stand, so t hey rebuff the one asking questions. Some don't like questions because they think you're stupid for asking in the first place, and gee isn't it obvious what the answer is! I know some who've left but it wasn't because they didn't really believe the truth of the Gospels. They were/are just angry with Christians and for God for "letting it happen". In their anger and loneliness, they say their atheists, but they believe in God more than some Christians I've met.

 

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by ApologeticJedi
I think that's probably one reason people walk-away is that they cease beleiving in God. However it's too convenient to assume everyone has the exact same motives. I think some honestly don't want to live with God.

I think that's a good probability. But as Sozo, Sold Out, and Crow have already said, God would not reject his own Body (of believers). Also, as Crow said, some people who "leave God," might not have ever been "with Him."

 

[Zakath]

Re: The Walk-Away

Originally posted by ApologeticJedi
...What then, is the response to the idea that people can walk away? I'm speaking of someone who aftr accepting Jesus, decides he'd rather not spend all of eternity with God. Can someone walk away from their own salvation?

I'm probably one of those to whom Crow was referring...

I walked away.

Or, from my point of view, I gradually moved to a position where I believed it was all a delusion.

I've not been presented with a single shred of convincing evidence to the contrary in more than ten years.

 

[Sold Out]

Re: Re: The Walk-Away

Re: Re: The Walk-Away

Originally posted by Zakath

I'm probably one of those to whom Crow was referring...

I walked away.

Or, from my point of view, I gradually moved to a position where I believed it was all a delusion.

I've not been presented with a single shred of convincing evidence to the contrary in more than ten years.

What was the deciding factor that caused you to walk away?

About 12 yrs ago, after my father-in-law was diagnosed with AIDS, my husband went off the deep end. He said he didn't believe in God anymore, stopped going to church, and basically turned his back on Christianity. It was horrible. He went on like that for over a year. He was a different person.

Right before his dad died, he started to come back to himself. Slowly but surely he started going to church with me. I had to have the patience of Job during all of this! It took YEARS for him to finally tell me why he did what he did. He was questioning God and he was mad at Him for taking his dad away. That's what children do, they get mad at their parents and stop talking to them. My husband was being childish and finally decided to face facts - his dad did something to cause his illness and it was not God being unfair to my husband. Don't we all face God mad with our fists up in the air? Of course! And that's what He wants to do so that we can have an honest relationship with Him.

Now I don't know if it was something like this that caused you to question Christianity, but I thought I'd throw it in, maybe (hopefully) to encourage someone else who's mad at God right now.

 

[Sozo]

Many "claiming" Christians walk away from religion, but that is all it is. They have a relationship with religion, holding to a form of godliness or morality, but they have never received His life, they deny the power of the gospel. Salvation is new life in Christ, not mental assent. Unless you are known by Him, you have walked away from something (religion, another Jesus or gospel), but it is not salvation. Salvation is past tense in those who have come to Christ by grace through faith, and it is beyond the possibilty to be undone. Again, read His lips...

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand."

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith."

NO ONE can perish that has eternal life.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Sold Out

What was the deciding factor that caused you to walk away?

...

Thank you for sharing.

My disbelief is not based on any trauma or tragedy. Nothing spectacular. :nono:

After almost thirty years of studying Christian scriptures and theology I came to a gradual realization that I had been lied to, or at least been sold a "bill of goods" by people who were sincere, but sincerely wrong.

The more I examined the teachings of Christianity, the more difficulty I had in ignoring the cognitive dissonance I required to believe. Eventually I released the "belief" in YHWH completely and began exploring other religions. I ended up with the same conclusion in every religion I have yet investigated - they are all based on human desire and psychological projection, not empirical reality.

Eventually, I moved to my present position of atheism. There I will likely stay, until some deity manifests him/herself in a convincing fashion.

No frustration; and no anger at someone who isn't there. :shrug:

Just the awesome realization that I'm responsible for my making my own life meaningful and successful, not some supernatural entity...

 

[Ecumenicist]

Re: The Walk-Away

Originally posted by ApologeticJedi

I agree with those that say that one cannot loose one's own salvation through sin. I don't believe we were saved on the basis of our lack of sin, so it makes little sense that we could loose our salvation by sinning.

What then, is the response to the idea that people can walk away? I'm speaking of someone who aftr accepting Jesus, decides he'd rather not spend all of eternity with God. Can someone walk away from their own salvation?

Time for a paradigm shift. Hang on this could be a little
rough going . \\\\^^^^?////

There, shift complete.

Life begins a birth, not death. The joys of salvation;
surrendering one's self will to Christ, living in the
eternal kingdom, looking forward to eternal life,
experiencing others through the eyes of Christ, all
are experienced here and now.

If one "walks away," then one longer participates
in sharing, enjoying the fruits of salvation.

As for what happens after death, that's up to God. For
here and now, accepting the gift and living the gift means
participating in the Kingdom here and now. To walk
away is to leave the Kingdom, here and now...

Dave

 

[Sozo]

The bible makes it clear that those who are believers, and are saved by grace through faith, know God and are known by Him.

Please tell us Zakath, since you "claim" to have once been a Christian, when did you know Him whom you now claim does not exist?

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Sozo

The bible makes it clear that those who are believers, and are saved by grace through faith, know God and are known by Him.

Please tell us Zakath, since you "claim" to have once been a Christian, when did you know Him whom you now claim does not exist?

I "knew him" in the same surety that John Nash believed he was working for the U.S. government as a code breaker. In other words, as surely as you think you know him.

 

[Granite]

Nice analogy.:thumb:

For me it was a death in the family, then a burning experience by an abusive church...between the two of those it was enough to get me thinking. And reading. Which, from a dogmatic Christian standpoint, is NEVER a good sign.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Zakath

I "knew him" in the same surety that John Nash believed he was working for the U.S. government as a code breaker.

The reality is... you are as deluded now, as you were then. Nothing has changed.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Sozo

The reality is... you are as deluded now, as you were then. Nothing has changed.

Not at all... "I was blind, but now I see..."

I don't need to live in a universe inhabited by fairies, ghoulies, and ghosties. Perhaps you do... :think: