The Lord Jesus Christ said a house divided cannot stand.
The Two Resurrections
- Thread starter fzappa13
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Yawn. Can't you think of something that hasn't been addressed a thousand times on here already?
Because it's a good thing there's multiple houses with different house rules in the Bible.... By the way, which house are you a part of, the house of Israel, or the "house" of the Body of Christ?
"OIKOS" = house
"NOMOS" = rules
OIKONOMIA = house rules
It's the word we translate as...
Wait for it...........
DISPENSATION!
... in Ephesians 3, where Paul says:
For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.
Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 3:1-7 - New King James Version
The Mystery Revealed - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when...
The house of Israel had (and will have) different house rules than the Body of Christ.
Mixing the two only results in confusion.
... and here lay the key to our dilemma. Paul said that at his departure wolves would come in to scatter the flock and so it has happened. He struggled against it for the entirety of his dispensation. I don't see this situation resolving itself shy of the return of Christ. In the mean time it is incumbent up us to seek to lay hands on the faith once delivered to the saints as best we can. We are given this consolation:
James 1: 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
1 Cor 2:
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
John 16:
12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Right Divider
Body part
Matt 12:25 (AKJV/PCE)
(12:25) And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Quoting tiny parts of scripture, by themselves (and out of context), is an devious trick.
The fellowship of the mystery is NOT against what God was and will do with Israel.
They are BOTH God doing what He wills.
Right Divider
Body part
James was not writing to the body of Christ (though there is some general wisdom in his book that can be valuable if the context is understood).
Jas 1:1 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Peter was writing the SAME people:
1Pet 1:1 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
Yes, WE in the BODY of CHRIST have received this. You should join us.
John was not writing to you. John agreed, along with Peter and James, to limit his ministry to the circumcision.
Gal 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:9) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Your FALSE accusations against us will come back to haunt you at the judgment.
And thus we keep seeking the connections between what is recorded in books and the resurrection.
The books (plural) that record actions and the book of life which records those that are faithful to YHWH only.
I suspect all the book recordings are a way to express that nothing is hid from GOD.
A resurrection to life that only the faithful (the wheat) will receive, due to being buried and raised in Christ (ie. the Seed of Christ sown in you).
And then there is that other type seed, the tares (the seed sown by the wicked one) that will be burned.
1 Cor 15:42-50 gives us the most details of what happens when the faithful are buried and raised to life.
Right Divider
Body part
There is such IRONY in your hypocritical comments.
It is WE, the Pauline right dividing Mid-Acts dispensationalists, that carry on the doctrines that PAUL wrote in his epistles.
It is YOU that opposes the truth therein!
Right Divider
Body part
We followed PAUL, you hypocritical weasel.
1Cor 4:16 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:16) Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
1Cor 11:1 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:1) Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.
Phil 3:17 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:17) Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
We are uniquely blessed/challenged having been born into that time period when one may avail themselves of the grace offered through faith in Christ. This plays a role in our judgement/resurrection that is not available to those who incarnated before or after this offer expires at the return of Christ unless one is willing to consider the possibility that those in hell had a 3 day window of opportunity to avail themselves of this offer during the time Christ was there. In His absence there has been no small amount of conjecture as it regards the effect of said grace on our resurrection status, much of it revolving around whether or not said grace obligated us in any way. The only real consistency that I have observed in the doctrinal thought on this issue is that the further away from Christ's passing we get the less the doctrinal adherent feels what they do effects their status vis a vis their resurrection.
Ah yes, invective, the last refuge of the rhetorically/intellectually disadvantaged.
Pulling this forward.
Parallel with the convo I'm having with Tam is the consideration of what effect(s) the offer of Grace through faith may have had on theses records and their usage.
Right Divider
Body part
The only one that has not engaged intellectually here is you.
See post #38 that you cannot respond to.
Right Divider
Body part
... who knows, maybe God answers prayers after all.
Concerning those records being recorded in heavenly book seems to be a common concept among the ancients and that same concept is also present in the Book of Jubilees and the Book of Enoch.
Jubilees 19
9 And he said not a single word regarding the rumor in the land how that YAHWEH had said that He would give it to him [Abraham] and to his seed after him, and he begged a place there to bury his dead; for he was found faithful, and was recorded on the heavenly tablets as the friend of YAHWEH.
Jubilees 30
19 And so they inscribe as a testimony in his favour on the heavenly tablets blessing and righteousness before the ALMIGHTY of all:
20 And we remember the righteousness which the man fulfilled during his life, at all periods of the year; until a thousand generations they will record it, and it will come to him and to his descendants after him, and he has been recorded on the heavenly tablets as a friend and a righteous man.
21 All this account I have written for you, and have commanded you to say to the children of Yisrael, that they should not commit sin nor transgress the ordinances nor break the covenant which has been ordained for them, (but) that they should fulfill it and be recorded as friends.
22 But if they transgress and work uncleanness in every way, they will be recorded on the heavenly tablets as adversaries, and they will be destroyed out of the book of life, and they will be recorded in the book of those who will be destroyed and with those who will be rooted out of the earth.
Enoch 47
3 At that time I beheld the Ancient of days, while he sat upon the throne of his glory, while the book of the living was opened in his presence, and while all the powers which were above the heavens stood around and before him.
Grace through faith is the only reason for the book if life. Jesus is made all things to do with salvation.
1Corinthians 1: 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Righteousness is translated from:
[*StrongsGreek*]
01343
δικαιοσύνη dikaiosýnē, dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay
from 1342;
equity (of character or act); specially (Christian) justification:--righteousness.
redemption is translated:
[*StrongsGreek*]
00629
ἀπολύτρωσις apolýtrōsis, ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis
from a compound of 575 and 3083;
(the act) ransom in full, i.e. (figuratively) riddance, or (specially) Christian salvation:--deliverance, redemption.
If you've read my thread on ga'al you know the concept of ransom is about Jesus paying our ransom to save us, Thus He, through faith is the one who saves us. Thus grace through faith is the only reason that exists for the book of life.
Thank you for this. I am likely guilty of having dismissed what eventually came to be termed as "non canonical" literature somewhat prematurely I suspect and this is likely evidence of that.
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I have to admit I have not read the thread you mention in it's entirety but only in part. As it concerns the notion that Grace thru faith is the entirety of the point and purpose of the book of life I would suggest that thought doesn't leave room for these folks:
Rom 2:
11For there is no respect of persons with God.
12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.