The Ten:

[Letsargue]

I was watching “Ancient Almanac”, and the topic was, - “The Ten Commandments”.

Where do those people come from? – How can anyone be SO BLIND! - ?

Those absolute blind donkeys couldn’t figure out why there wasn’t any punishment spoken along with the TEN Commandments. - Where-in the rest of the Scriptures speak of punishment that goes along with the violation of all the other Laws, - from stoning to banishment, some were kinder and some were harsher; even the sacrifice of animals for the nation’s violations personally and as a whole. -- I can’t think of anything that could be a more fitting punishment for the absolute ignorance and stupidity of anyone who can’t see why there was no punishment that went along with the Ten Commandments written on the stone; HELL! --- JESUS DIED AND TOOK THE PUNISHMENT FOR THE WORLD! - That was preordained. – It wasn’t meant for anyone else to be punished for those TEN Commandments on the STONE. They were SPIRIT of all the rest of the Commandments to COME!

COME ON! - Get it together with the WORD people!

The Ten Commandments were the first. - They were the SPIRIT of all the Commandments that came later in the rest of the Scriptures. - Even though he wasn’t guilty of any; being SPIRIT of the Word, Christ must pay the price for the violation of those Ten Commandments written on Moses’ tables of STONE, no one else. --- Jesus WAS the Stone in which they were written ( COME ON )! ----- John 1:14 KJV – “THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, and we beheld his glory”. -- And -- Psalms 22:15 KJV – “My strength is dried up like a POTSHARD”. ----- Between the cross and the resurrection from the Tomb, David has written in one of his Songs / Psalms, the prophesy of Jesus speaking IN THE SPIRIT. – Jesus’ “strength”, spoken of is his muscles / flesh that has dried up as “STONE” from the loss of blood and WATER; - all of it. - Jesus was a dry crisp when taken down from the cross. - Jesus was then the slate or STONE on which the Word of God was written, and then placed into the Tomb / the Ark of HIS Covenant, bought and paid for, for all the sins of the world. -- ( QUESTION! ) --- Where did all the “ALOES” go that Joseph placed with the dried Body in the tomb? -- What are ALOES? - SECRET? – NO! – It’s in plain view for any Spirit / Angel to SEE. ----- Song of Solomon 5:5 KJV – “I rose up to open to my beloved; and MY HANDS DROPPED WITH MYRRH, AND MY FINGERS WITH SWEET SMELLING MYRRH, UPON THE HANDLES OF THE LOCK”. -----

All the great Rabbis of the Law, and the great scholars of the Word of God, the college professors, and philosophers, some of the “supposed to be” greatest minds, all are nothing but the church of dumb jack - and jenny donkeys. How great they are! - And they all deny the actual existence of Angels.

Those of you who can’t SEE, deserve to pay the price for yourselves, and you surely WILL.

Paul – 100710

 

[keypurr]

Sin is transgression of the Law, what is the punishment of SIN?

 

[Letsargue]

Sin is transgression of the Law, what is the punishment of SIN?

There is NO punishment for anyone for the transgression of the Ten Commandments that were written on the Stone. (FIND IT)! - Jesus was crucified and paid the price for us, or haven't you heard. -- The Ten was not ordered or ordained for any other than for Jesus, and it was ordained or ordained for Jesus to die in our stead for just those. --- You all will pay your own price for the transgressions of the "Carnal Commandments cotained in ORDANCES"; not for the "Spirit" of the Carnal Commandments. --- The Spirit is always before the Carnal! Read the Book!

Paul -- 100810

 

[keypurr]

There is NO punishment for anyone for the transgression of the Ten Commandments that were written on the Stone. (FIND IT)! - Jesus was crucified and paid the price for us, or haven't you heard. -- The Ten was not ordered or ordained for any other than for Jesus, and it was ordained or ordained for Jesus to die in our stead for just those. --- You all will pay your own price for the transgressions of the "Carnal Commandments cotained in ORDANCES"; not for the "Spirit" of the Carnal Commandments. --- The Spirit is always before the Carnal! Read the Book!

Paul -- 100810

Are you saying that there is no punishment for sin?

If so, why did Christ die?

 

[Letsargue]

Are you saying that there is no punishment for sin?

If so, why did Christ die?

You guys are really SLICK in your struggle to defend yourselves.

You know perfectly that's NOT WHAT I SAID!

I said, - "There is no punishment for anyone for the transgressions for the "TEN" commandments written "ON THE STONE". -- Those on the stone were for their learning not for the punishment if disobeyed. That was not the LAW, it was only the "commandments"; the heart of the "ORDENANCES". --READ IT-- The Law contained in "ORDANCES" / ORDAINED / ORDERS / came some later. -- Read that too!--
Take "your" rewording of God, and believe what ever you desire to chang it to. -- SORRY!

Paul -- 100910

 

[keypurr]

You guys are really SLICK in your struggle to defend yourselves.

You know perfectly that's NOT WHAT I SAID!

I said, - "There is no punishment for anyone for the transgressions for the "TEN" commandments written "ON THE STONE". -- Those on the stone were for their learning not for the punishment if disobeyed. That was not the LAW, it was only the "commandments"; the heart of the "ORDENANCES". --READ IT-- The Law contained in "ORDANCES" / ORDAINED / ORDERS / came some later. -- Read that too!--
Take "your" rewording of God, and believe what ever you desire to chang it to. -- SORRY!

Paul -- 100910

Paul, in the past I have enjoyed some of your post, but on this one, your talking through your hat.
The wages of sin is death, sin is not keeping the Ten Commandments. Christ did not do away with the TEN, he discarded the "Hand written ordanances", the ones that were carried outside the Ark.
In my over sixty years of study I find no place in scripture where the TEN are not to be kept. Christ came to magnify them in our hearts so that we could keep them in the spirit. I would not take them lightly as you do, Jesus kept them and you should too. Because Jesus did not go around promoting sin.
God Bless from a slick 75 year old student of God.

 

[Letsargue]

Paul, in the past I have enjoyed some of your post, but on this one, your talking through your hat.
The wages of sin is death, sin is not keeping the Ten Commandments. Christ did not do away with the TEN, he discarded the "Hand written ordanances", the ones that were carried outside the Ark.
In my over sixty years of study I find no place in scripture where the TEN are not to be kept. Christ came to magnify them in our hearts so that we could keep them in the spirit. I would not take them lightly as you do, Jesus kept them and you should too. Because Jesus did not go around promoting sin.
God Bless from a slick 75 year old student of God.

Most Popes were older than you, and that doesn't make them right.
I'm just a babe, - Eternal.

You’re changing everything I’m saying. -- I did not say that a sinner is not guilty of sinning against anything Jesus Christ said, and commander in HIS TESTOMENT relating to his Covenant to the world. ----- Matthew 28:19-20 KJV - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20- ( TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU )-: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen”. ----- That’s Jesus’ COVENANT TO THE WORLD; and it’s in the Gospels and in the NEW TESTAMENT of Jesus Christ. -- It’s Jesus’ TESTIMONY to the lost world. – Why can’t you read it, and believe it? –

We are to obey the things that Jesus Christ said in his Testimony, and the things the Apostles taught to the Jews, and PAUL taught to the “GENTILES”. --- Not Moses’ Old Law. - The Jews were to obey the Old Law contained in the ordnances before Jesus’ death, and Jesus died for the TEN COMMANDMENTS, which were given to Israel before the LAW was introduced and the TEN were NOT CONTAINED IN THE ORDANCES TO ANYONE. – ( FIND the Ordnances for the TEN ) -- The TEN is, and what Jesus was and he died and did the TEN; not the –( GENTILES )-. NOW, we obey Jesus, who died for the TEN. They are HIS, and are intergraded into Jesus’ New Covenant and his Testimony. – What is your problem? --- You and the others are GENTILES! – Not under the TEN, OR THE OLD, but under Christ the fulfiller of ALL. ----- Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV - And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church. 23- Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all”.
Do it your way!

Paul – 100910

 

[keypurr]

Most Popes were older than you, and that doesn't make them right.
I'm just a babe, - Eternal.

You’re changing everything I’m saying. -- I did not say that a sinner is not guilty of sinning against anything Jesus Christ said, and commander in HIS TESTOMENT relating to his Covenant to the world. ----- Matthew 28:19-20 KJV - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20- ( TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU )-: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen”. ----- That’s Jesus’ COVENANT TO THE WORLD; and it’s in the Gospels and in the NEW TESTAMENT of Jesus Christ. -- It’s Jesus’ TESTIMONY to the lost world. – Why can’t you read it, and believe it? –

No, I am trying to understand you.
You said that there is no punishment for breakiing the TEN commandments. I asked you if there is a punishment for sin?
Because sin is breaking the commandments. Jesus taught the TEN. He said they will never end.

We are to obey the things that Jesus Christ said in his Testimony, and the things the Apostles taught to the Jews, and PAUL taught to the “GENTILES”. --- Not Moses’ Old Law. - The Jews were to obey the Old Law contained in the ordnances before Jesus’ death, and Jesus died for the TEN COMMANDMENTS, which were given to Israel before the LAW was introduced and the TEN were NOT CONTAINED IN THE ORDANCES TO ANYONE. – ( FIND the Ordnances for the TEN ) -- The TEN is, and what Jesus was and he died and did the TEN; not the –( GENTILES )-. NOW, we obey Jesus, who died for the TEN. They are HIS, and are intergraded into Jesus’ New Covenant and his Testimony. – What is your problem? --- You and the others are GENTILES! – Not under the TEN, OR THE OLD, but under Christ the fulfiller of ALL. ----- Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV - And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church. 23- Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all”.
Do it your way!

Paul – 100910

Friend, we disagree on what the handwritten ordanances are, they are NOT the TEN. They are the Mosic laws that were carried outside the Ark. The TEN are not Moses's laws, they are God"s.
Thank God that he sent Jesus to give us a way to overcome the sins of this world. Everyone should fulfill the Laws of God.

Sorry if I made you huffy, but I think you were wrong to tell folks that there is no penalty for sin. I have no problem understanding his ways but I think you do sometimes.

Rather than do it my way, I'll try to do it his.


God Bless

 

[Letsargue]

No, I am trying to understand you.
You said that there is no punishment for breakiing the TEN commandments. I asked you if there is a punishment for sin?
Because sin is breaking the commandments. Jesus taught the TEN. He said they will never end.




Friend, we disagree on what the handwritten ordanances are, they are NOT the TEN. They are the Mosic laws that were carried outside the Ark. The TEN are not Moses's laws, they are God"s.
Thank God that he sent Jesus to give us a way to overcome the sins of this world. Everyone should fulfill the Laws of God.

Sorry if I made you huffy, but I think you were wrong to tell folks that there is no penalty for sin. I have no problem understanding his ways but I think you do sometimes.

Rather than do it my way, I'll try to do it his.


God Bless

Jesus nailed the hand writing of “Ordnances” that was against THEM, to his cross, which was the OLD LAW written by hand by Moses and his scribes and prophets, and took it out of the way of the "good and honest hearts", not the evil hearts. – I did not say the TEN had any ordnances with them, and you know that also. -- In fact I said there were not any ordnances with the TEN, and that’s why the TEN were not for anyone but Jesus the Savior when he came and he did come and died for the TEN for the World of which was Israel at the time. – The Old Law was the “LAW and the Prophets” with the ordnances given to them by inspiration of God, which was the penalty for breaking the LAW; - The “Law and the Prophets”. There were no Prophets involved in the Ten, therefore no ordnances, and no penalty. There being no penalty and Jesus dying for us is eternally loving.

You keep saying that I said there is no penalty for sin, I NEVER, EVER SAID THAT!
I said there is no penalty for the TEN, for US the Gentiles or Israel at THAT TIME. --- Just Christ who is the LAW GIVER NOW, not Moses or Christ’s Father, but the SON. -- WE must obey Christ’s LAW which is not the TEN or the OLD. – Jesus did not bring the TEN forward in Commandments, - Jesus re-spoke some of them changing the wording into his own LAW, AS IN, ----- Matthew 5:27-28 KJV – and – Matthew 5:21-22 KJV – Those are not the TEN; they are from Jesus, - of the TEN from his heart. They have Ordnances with them coming from Jesus who was to pay the price a little later for the Gentiles and the Jews.

I did not say there is no penalty for sin, YOU SAID I DID, over, and over. -- I guess that’s the way some can try to make me look like a fool. - I NEVER SAID IT, and you know it.

Paul – 100910

 

[YahuShuan]

No punishments? The Ten beg to differ...

No punishments? The Ten beg to differ...

There is NO punishment for anyone for the transgression of the Ten Commandments that were written on the Stone. (FIND IT)! - Jesus was crucified and paid the price for us, or haven't you heard. -- The Ten was not ordered or ordained for any other than for Jesus, and it was ordained or ordained for Jesus to die in our stead for just those. --- You all will pay your own price for the transgressions of the "Carnal Commandments cotained in ORDANCES"; not for the "Spirit" of the Carnal Commandments. --- The Spirit is always before the Carnal! Read the Book!

Paul -- 100810

Exo 20:1 And Elohim spoke all these Words, saying,
Exo 20:2 “I am יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim, out of the house of slavery.
Exo 20:3 “You have no other mighty ones against My face.
Exo 20:4 “You do not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of that which is in the heavens above, or which is in the earth beneath, or which is in the waters under the earth,
Exo 20:5 you do not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim am a jealous Ěl, visiting the crookedness of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exo 20:6 but showing kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and guard My commands.
Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught.
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart.
Exo 20:9 “Six days you labour, and shall do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 “For in six days יהוה (YAHUWEH) made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore יהוה (YAHUWEH) blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.
Exo 20:12 “Respect your father and your mother, so that your days are prolonged upon the soil which יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim is giving you.
Exo 20:13 “You do not murder.
Exo 20:14 “You do not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 “You do not steal.
Exo 20:16 “You do not bear false witness against your neighbour.
Exo 20:17 “You do not covet your neighbour’s house, you do not covet your neighbour’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, or whatever belongs to your neighbour.”

Also, in one goes into the latter Scripture they will find that people are turned over to worship the host of heaven for worshipping "other mighty ones"...

Act 7:42, 43 “So Elohim turned and gave them up to worship the host of the heaven, as it has been written in the book of the Prophets, ‘Did you bring slaughtered beasts and offerings unto Me during forty years in the wilderness, O house of Yisra’ĕl? ‘And you took up the tent of Moleḵ, and the star of your mighty one Kiyyun, images which you made to bow before them. Therefore I shall remove you beyond Baḇel.’

Today's religions and denominations of christianity do the same thing, and have obviously been turned over to worship the hosts of heaven. His Name means nothing to them, His Laws means nothing to them, the worshipping of sticks and stones means nothing to them, and the breaking of His Holy Days means nothing to them, and they even revell with the pagans who worship the host of heaven in their made up holy days such as christmas and easter going the ways of Mithra and the venerable sun god, which is also the one whose sabbath they observe on the first day of the week instead of the SEVENTH DAY which the 7th Day is the only day to be Sabbath, the sign of HIS PEOLE FOREVER.

They care nothing about those things and they wonder why 3 to 4 generations in their families suck. Duh. And the disobediences can invoke punishments up to TEN generations. YOU ALL GOT TO READ the Book! Especially since we can only know the end out of the beginning, and oh boy, THAT should have been a clue.

YAHUWEH blessed the SVENTH DAY and "set it apart". But this means nothing to those who claim to be saved by Him. His words don't mean anything to those who profess Him, only their own words do, and that is why they will be condemned by them, because they are not His Words given to men. Not even His Name that was given that contains the Father and the Son. Means nothing. What should have been a gift is still spat upon and the excuse given is "I'm not a Jew".

Ya, well I can not believe, according to HIS WORDS, that that will go over too well whatsoever. "Man will have no excuse". But go on, continue listening to men and many books that lead you away from the truth that has been passed down for over 6000 years. What a joke to make up your own "God" and claim His Name don't matter, nor His "appointed times", nor His Commands and think this is a free ride.

WELL IT WASN'T FOR THE MESSIAH! What makes you think it would be for you? That's CRAZY! HE told us it wouldn't be a free ride.

 

[keypurr]

Jesus nailed the hand writing of “Ordnances” that was against THEM, to his cross, which was the OLD LAW written by hand by Moses and his scribes and prophets, and took it out of the way of the "good and honest hearts", not the evil hearts. – I did not say the TEN had any ordnances with them, and you know that also. -- In fact I said there were not any ordnances with the TEN, and that’s why the TEN were not for anyone but Jesus the Savior when he came and he did come and died for the TEN for the World of which was Israel at the time. – The Old Law was the “LAW and the Prophets” with the ordnances given to them by inspiration of God, which was the penalty for breaking the LAW; - The “Law and the Prophets”. There were no Prophets involved in the Ten, therefore no ordnances, and no penalty. There being no penalty and Jesus dying for us is eternally loving.

We disagree but that is OK

You keep saying that I said there is no penalty for sin, I NEVER, EVER SAID THAT!
I said there is no penalty for the TEN, for US the Gentiles or Israel at THAT TIME. --- Just Christ who is the LAW GIVER NOW, not Moses or Christ’s Father, but the SON. -- WE must obey Christ’s LAW which is not the TEN or the OLD. – Jesus did not bring the TEN forward in Commandments, - Jesus re-spoke some of them changing the wording into his own LAW, AS IN, ----- Matthew 5:27-28 KJV – and – Matthew 5:21-22 KJV – Those are not the TEN; they are from Jesus, - of the TEN from his heart. They have Ordnances with them coming from Jesus who was to pay the price a little later for the Gentiles and the Jews.

We disagree ot this also, but again thats OK.

I did not say there is no penalty for sin, YOU SAID I DID, over, and over. -- I guess that’s the way some can try to make me look like a fool. - I NEVER SAID IT, and you know it.

Paul – 100910

You claim that there is no penalty for breaking the TEN, the Bible says that breaking the TEN is SIN. So you imply that there is no penalty for sin.

Here are YOUR words.
You know perfectly that's NOT WHAT I SAID!
"There is no punishment for anyone for the transgressions for the "TEN" commandments written "ON THE STONE".
In your words the TEN are not to be kept by us? Breaking the TEN IS SIN.
How am I to understand this?

You imply friend that sin has no punishment, I suggest you think about that.

I am not trying to make you look like a fool, we both do that on our own sometimes. Lighten up, I am not debating, I just trying to understand how you came to such a conclusion.;

Yours in Christ, Bob

 

[keypurr]

Exo 20:1 And Elohim spoke all these Words, saying,
Exo 20:2 “I am יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim, out of the house of slavery.
Exo 20:3 “You have no other mighty ones against My face.
Exo 20:4 “You do not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of that which is in the heavens above, or which is in the earth beneath, or which is in the waters under the earth,
Exo 20:5 you do not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim am a jealous Ěl, visiting the crookedness of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exo 20:6 but showing kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and guard My commands.
Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught.
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart.
Exo 20:9 “Six days you labour, and shall do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 “For in six days יהוה (YAHUWEH) made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore יהוה (YAHUWEH) blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.
Exo 20:12 “Respect your father and your mother, so that your days are prolonged upon the soil which יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim is giving you.
Exo 20:13 “You do not murder.
Exo 20:14 “You do not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 “You do not steal.
Exo 20:16 “You do not bear false witness against your neighbour.
Exo 20:17 “You do not covet your neighbour’s house, you do not covet your neighbour’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, or whatever belongs to your neighbour.”

Also, in one goes into the latter Scripture they will find that people are turned over to worship the host of heaven for worshipping "other mighty ones"...

Act 7:42, 43 “So Elohim turned and gave them up to worship the host of the heaven, as it has been written in the book of the Prophets, ‘Did you bring slaughtered beasts and offerings unto Me during forty years in the wilderness, O house of Yisra’ĕl? ‘And you took up the tent of Moleḵ, and the star of your mighty one Kiyyun, images which you made to bow before them. Therefore I shall remove you beyond Baḇel.’

Today's religions and denominations of christianity do the same thing, and have obviously been turned over to worship the hosts of heaven. His Name means nothing to them, His Laws means nothing to them, the worshipping of sticks and stones means nothing to them, and the breaking of His Holy Days means nothing to them, and they even revell with the pagans who worship the host of heaven in their made up holy days such as christmas and easter going the ways of Mithra and the venerable sun god, which is also the one whose sabbath they observe on the first day of the week instead of the SEVENTH DAY which the 7th Day is the only day to be Sabbath, the sign of HIS PEOLE FOREVER.

They care nothing about those things and they wonder why 3 to 4 generations in their families suck. Duh. And the disobediences can invoke punishments up to TEN generations. YOU ALL GOT TO READ the Book! Especially since we can only know the end out of the beginning, and oh boy, THAT should have been a clue.

YAHUWEH blessed the SVENTH DAY and "set it apart". But this means nothing to those who claim to be saved by Him. His words don't mean anything to those who profess Him, only their own words do, and that is why they will be condemned by them, because they are not His Words given to men. Not even His Name that was given that contains the Father and the Son. Means nothing. What should have been a gift is still spat upon and the excuse given is "I'm not a Jew".

Ya, well I can not believe, according to HIS WORDS, that that will go over too well whatsoever. "Man will have no excuse". But go on, continue listening to men and many books that lead you away from the truth that has been passed down for over 6000 years. What a joke to make up your own "God" and claim His Name don't matter, nor His "appointed times", nor His Commands and think this is a free ride.

WELL IT WASN'T FOR THE MESSIAH! What makes you think it would be for you? That's CRAZY! HE told us it wouldn't be a free ride.

AMEN Brother

 

[Letsargue]

Exo 20:1 And Elohim spoke all these Words, saying,
Exo 20:2 “I am יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim, out of the house of slavery.
Exo 20:3 “You have no other mighty ones against My face.
Exo 20:4 “You do not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of that which is in the heavens above, or which is in the earth beneath, or which is in the waters under the earth,
Exo 20:5 you do not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim am a jealous Ěl, visiting the crookedness of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exo 20:6 but showing kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and guard My commands.
Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught.
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart.
Exo 20:9 “Six days you labour, and shall do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 “For in six days יהוה (YAHUWEH) made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore יהוה (YAHUWEH) blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.
Exo 20:12 “Respect your father and your mother, so that your days are prolonged upon the soil which יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim is giving you.
Exo 20:13 “You do not murder.
Exo 20:14 “You do not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 “You do not steal.
Exo 20:16 “You do not bear false witness against your neighbour.
Exo 20:17 “You do not covet your neighbour’s house, you do not covet your neighbour’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, or whatever belongs to your neighbour.”

Also, in one goes into the latter Scripture they will find that people are turned over to worship the host of heaven for worshipping "other mighty ones"...

Act 7:42, 43 “So Elohim turned and gave them up to worship the host of the heaven, as it has been written in the book of the Prophets, ‘Did you bring slaughtered beasts and offerings unto Me during forty years in the wilderness, O house of Yisra’ĕl? ‘And you took up the tent of Moleḵ, and the star of your mighty one Kiyyun, images which you made to bow before them. Therefore I shall remove you beyond Baḇel.’

Today's religions and denominations of christianity do the same thing, and have obviously been turned over to worship the hosts of heaven. His Name means nothing to them, His Laws means nothing to them, the worshipping of sticks and stones means nothing to them, and the breaking of His Holy Days means nothing to them, and they even revell with the pagans who worship the host of heaven in their made up holy days such as christmas and easter going the ways of Mithra and the venerable sun god, which is also the one whose sabbath they observe on the first day of the week instead of the SEVENTH DAY which the 7th Day is the only day to be Sabbath, the sign of HIS PEOLE FOREVER.

They care nothing about those things and they wonder why 3 to 4 generations in their families suck. Duh. And the disobediences can invoke punishments up to TEN generations. YOU ALL GOT TO READ the Book! Especially since we can only know the end out of the beginning, and oh boy, THAT should have been a clue.

YAHUWEH blessed the SVENTH DAY and "set it apart". But this means nothing to those who claim to be saved by Him. His words don't mean anything to those who profess Him, only their own words do, and that is why they will be condemned by them, because they are not His Words given to men. Not even His Name that was given that contains the Father and the Son. Means nothing. What should have been a gift is still spat upon and the excuse given is "I'm not a Jew".

Ya, well I can not believe, according to HIS WORDS, that that will go over too well whatsoever. "Man will have no excuse". But go on, continue listening to men and many books that lead you away from the truth that has been passed down for over 6000 years. What a joke to make up your own "God" and claim His Name don't matter, nor His "appointed times", nor His Commands and think this is a free ride.

WELL IT WASN'T FOR THE MESSIAH! What makes you think it would be for you? That's CRAZY! HE told us it wouldn't be a free ride.

You are reading from the "OLD LAW", the same thing "re-written" in it making it still the OLD LAW. -- The Old Law, that you must obey asccording to you all. --- Question:
Why did the TEN / TEN / "TEN" Commandments ON THE STONE TABLETS end up in the Ark of the Covenant? - The TEN were not the COVENANT! -- The TEN ended up in the Arc of the COVANENT for hundereds of years, WHY / "WHY"! -- Why was tne COVENANT NOT in the Ark of the Covenant? HHUUHHHHh!
Just because Moses re-wrote the same in the OLD LAW, doesn't remove the fact that the OLD LAW is the OLD LAW, and not the TEN in the ARK. -- Why were the TEN-on-the-STONE only in the Ark of the Covenant, IN the MOST HOLY, IN THE TEMPLE? - What is SOOO special about the TEN on the Stone, and there was NO Word about a PENATLY FROM THEM EXCEPT IN THE Old Law? --The penatly came with the Old Law and what was written in "IT". -- Jesus speaking on the same TEN were not the Ten, but the New Law of Jesus Christ of FAITH, not the TEN on the Stone.
Obey the TEN, and the Old Law if you must. I'm not forcing you to.

I'm SORRY about the runble;- please forgive me.

Paul -- 101010

 

[Eggasai]

I think you have it backwards, death came by the Law which is the punishment for sin. Everyone is punished for violating the Commandments of God. That was the whole purpose of the Law and violating the first two in particular is something that God was furious about:

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. (Romans 5:12-13)​

There are curses associated and directly attached to the giving of the Law from Sinai and oh, btw, there are more then the Ten. The Law came in order to convict us of our sin and apart from the work of Christ we would be without hope and condemned under the righteous requirements of the Law:

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith" (Rom. 3:21-22)​

The Law made nothing perfect because it was weakened through the flesh. That does not mean that we are not condemned under the Law as sinners:

What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. (Romans 7:7-10)​

Death is the penalty for sin, we die because of Adam's transgression and because we cannot keep the righteous requirements of the Law. This is the clear, consistent teaching of the New Testament regarding the Law. To argue otherwise is without theological or doctrinal merit.

Truly Christ nailed the ordinances and commandments to the cross and 'in Christ' we will never be visited with the curse of the Law. That does not mean that we are not guilty under the Law or that those without Christ will not suffer judgment, quite the contrary.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Letsargue]

Exo 20:1 And Elohim spoke all these Words, saying,
Exo 20:2 “I am יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim, out of the house of slavery.
Exo 20:3 “You have no other mighty ones against My face.
Exo 20:4 “You do not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of that which is in the heavens above, or which is in the earth beneath, or which is in the waters under the earth,
Exo 20:5 you do not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim am a jealous Ěl, visiting the crookedness of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exo 20:6 but showing kindness to thousands, to those who love Me and guard My commands.
Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught.
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart.
Exo 20:9 “Six days you labour, and shall do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 “For in six days יהוה (YAHUWEH) made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore יהוה (YAHUWEH) blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.
Exo 20:12 “Respect your father and your mother, so that your days are prolonged upon the soil which יהוה (YAHUWEH) your Elohim is giving you.
Exo 20:13 “You do not murder.
Exo 20:14 “You do not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 “You do not steal.
Exo 20:16 “You do not bear false witness against your neighbour.
Exo 20:17 “You do not covet your neighbour’s house, you do not covet your neighbour’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, or whatever belongs to your neighbour.”

Also, in one goes into the latter Scripture they will find that people are turned over to worship the host of heaven for worshipping "other mighty ones"...

Act 7:42, 43 “So Elohim turned and gave them up to worship the host of the heaven, as it has been written in the book of the Prophets, ‘Did you bring slaughtered beasts and offerings unto Me during forty years in the wilderness, O house of Yisra’ĕl? ‘And you took up the tent of Moleḵ, and the star of your mighty one Kiyyun, images which you made to bow before them. Therefore I shall remove you beyond Baḇel.’

Today's religions and denominations of christianity do the same thing, and have obviously been turned over to worship the hosts of heaven. His Name means nothing to them, His Laws means nothing to them, the worshipping of sticks and stones means nothing to them, and the breaking of His Holy Days means nothing to them, and they even revell with the pagans who worship the host of heaven in their made up holy days such as christmas and easter going the ways of Mithra and the venerable sun god, which is also the one whose sabbath they observe on the first day of the week instead of the SEVENTH DAY which the 7th Day is the only day to be Sabbath, the sign of HIS PEOLE FOREVER.

They care nothing about those things and they wonder why 3 to 4 generations in their families suck. Duh. And the disobediences can invoke punishments up to TEN generations. YOU ALL GOT TO READ the Book! Especially since we can only know the end out of the beginning, and oh boy, THAT should have been a clue.

YAHUWEH blessed the SVENTH DAY and "set it apart". But this means nothing to those who claim to be saved by Him. His words don't mean anything to those who profess Him, only their own words do, and that is why they will be condemned by them, because they are not His Words given to men. Not even His Name that was given that contains the Father and the Son. Means nothing. What should have been a gift is still spat upon and the excuse given is "I'm not a Jew".

Ya, well I can not believe, according to HIS WORDS, that that will go over too well whatsoever. "Man will have no excuse". But go on, continue listening to men and many books that lead you away from the truth that has been passed down for over 6000 years. What a joke to make up your own "God" and claim His Name don't matter, nor His "appointed times", nor His Commands and think this is a free ride.

WELL IT WASN'T FOR THE MESSIAH! What makes you think it would be for you? That's CRAZY! HE told us it wouldn't be a free ride.

You are reading from the "OLD LAW", the same thing "re-written" in it making it still the OLD LAW. -- The Old Law, that you must obey asccording to you all. --- Question:
Why did the TEN / TEN / "TEN" Commandments ON THE STONE TABLETS end up in the Ark of the Covenant? - The TEN were not the COVENANT! -- The TEN ended up in the Arc of the COVANENT for hundereds of years, WHY / "WHY"! --The COVENANT was NOT in the Ark of the Covenant? HHUUHHHHh!
Just because Moses re-wrote the same in the OLD LAW, doesn't remove the fact that the OLD LAW is still the OLD LAW, and not the "TEN in the ARK". How did God speak from the Ark of the Covenant to the High Priest? ---- It was Our Passover, Jesus Christ that was the stone. -- We now keep the Passover because Jesus died for us and became our passover in his Toom / his Ark of the Covenant having fulfilled all for us, Jesus fulfilled all in us all.

Why were the TEN-on-the-STONE only in the Ark of the Covenant, IN the MOST HOLY, IN THE TEMPLE? - What is SOOO special about the "TEN on the Stone", and there was NO Word about a PENTALY FROM THEM "EXCEPT" IN THE Old Law? --The penatly came with the Old Law and what was written in "IT". -- Jesus speaking on the same TEN were not the Ten, but the New Law of Jesus Christ of FAITH, not the "TEN on the Stone".

Obey the TEN, and the Old Law if you must. I'm not forcing you to.

Paul -- 101010

 

[keypurr]

Why did the TEN / TEN / "TEN" Commandments ON THE STONE TABLETS end up in the Ark of the Covenant? - The TEN were not the COVENANT! -- The TEN ended up in the Arc of the COVANENT for hundereds of years, WHY / "WHY"! --The COVENANT was NOT in the Ark of the Covenant? HHUUHHHHh!

Wrong, the Ten was the covenant

Why were the TEN-on-the-STONE only in the Ark of the Covenant, IN the MOST HOLY, IN THE TEMPLE? - What is SOOO special about the "TEN on the Stone", and there was NO Word about a PENTALY FROM THEM "EXCEPT" IN THE Old Law? --The penatly came with the Old Law and what was written in "IT". -- Jesus speaking on the same TEN were not the Ten, but the New Law of Jesus Christ of FAITH, not the "TEN on the Stone".

They were special because they were made by the finger of God.

Jesus kept them are advised us to do so also.

1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

2Ch 5:10 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of Egypt.

Now note this Paul, the Ark is in heaven.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

What did Jesus say?:

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

God Bless

 

[Letsargue]

Wrong, the Ten was the covenant




They were special because they were made by the finger of God.

Jesus kept them are advised us to do so also.

1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

2Ch 5:10 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of Egypt.

Now note this Paul, the Ark is in heaven.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

What did Jesus say?:

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

God Bless

OOHH, MY!

NO! - You know better than that! --- They were not the, or a Covenant. -- A Covenant is a PROMISE, "A PROMISE", as was to Abraham, and to Moah. Those were Covenants with Prophesy and the promise to support it. -- COME ON! - You know better than that!
There is not a word of Promise or prophesy in the Ten Commandments, and you know it!

You guys will say anything to support your doctrine, knowing it's a lie.

You know perfictly well what a Covenant is, and yet you call the "Ten Commandments" a COVENANT, just because!

There is neither, nor was there any Prophesy or Promise with the TEN COMMANDMENTS. - That may would have made them a Covenant. BUT THEY ARE "NOT".

At 75, - and you're still playing games with the Word of God?

Paul -- 101110

 

[YahuShuan]

Wrong, the Ten was the covenant




They were special because they were made by the finger of God.

Jesus kept them are advised us to do so also.

1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

2Ch 5:10 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of Egypt.

Now note this Paul, the Ark is in heaven.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

What did Jesus say?:

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

God Bless

And also...

Luk 11:2 And He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in the heavens, let Your Name be set-apart, let Your reign come, let Your desire be done on earth as it is in heaven."

"On Earth as it IS in Heaven" seems to mean nothing to them either. That is no doubt why the Master pointed right at His Disiples and said...

Mat 12:48-50 But He answering, said to the one who spoke to Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” And having stretched out His hand toward His taught ones, He said, “See My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the desire of My Father who is in the heavens is My brother and sister and mother.”

But the "desire of the Father" is "old" to them, so that means nothing to them either.

I guess they don't realize what "I and the Father are ONE" means? Or that means nothing to them either. Well then, that being the unrealized case for them who say "we do not listen", I wonder if they even begin to get what this means...

Joh 6:43-45 Then יהושע (YAHU'SHUA) answered and said to them, “Do not grumble with one another. No one is able to come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him. And I shall raise him up in the last day. It has been written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by יהוה.’ (YAHUWEH) Everyone, then, who has heard from the Father, and learned, comes to Me."

And also why He said...

Mat 23:1-12 Then יהושע (YAHU'SHUA) spoke to the crowds and to His taught ones, saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, whatever they say to you to guard, guard and do. But do not do according to their works, for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them. And they do all their works to be seen by men, and they make their t’fillen wide and lengthen the tzitziyot of their garments, and they love the best place at feasts, and the best seats in the congregations, and the greetings in the market-places, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ “But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi,’ for One is your Teacher, the Messiah, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your Father, He who is in the heavens. Neither be called leaders, for One is your Leader, the Messiah. But the greatest among you shall be your servant. And whoever exalts himself shall be humbled, and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted."

With a little study one observes that when Yahu'Shua said "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, whatever they say to you to guard, guard and do"; what He really said was obey MOSES, not the scribes and pharisees. Most religions that are supposedly Bible based ignore that FACT. They saw "we are not under the law" and ravaged the candy store without seeing the security guard was already in place. They think they can run out of the store with all their pillagings and not have to pay the piper...but they haven't noticed the cameras are still on. "man will have no excuse". We ALL have to take the page out that divided the Covenant, because it never actually did divide it, it is and always was ONE. What was ripped was the veil between Yahuweh and us of sacrifices, that's all, so that we could go directly to the High Preist and repent in order to BE forgiven. And for what? Disobeying Torah...which is what sin IS. The Torah is of Yahuweh, the "law" is of men. We still must "do the desires of the Father".

And as for those who say that Jesus hung it on a tree are just plain not thinking...it IS YAHU'SHUA who wrote the Torah and said "not one jot will change". But most out there think it did for some reason, no people, the Torah is still in effect, the only thing that was done was the fulfillment of the SPRING FEASTS, which are no more a "shadow of things to come" Yahu'Shua fulfilled them in the way He lived. Now He is returning to fulfill the Fall Feasts. He wasn't "finished", only what He came to do AT THAT TIME is finished!

If He was "finished" then why would they be waiting for Him to return? Duh.

know what I mean? I think you do:chuckle:

 

[Letsargue]

Wrong, the Ten was the covenant




They were special because they were made by the finger of God.

Jesus kept them are advised us to do so also.

1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

2Ch 5:10 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of Egypt.

Now note this Paul, the Ark is in heaven.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

What did Jesus say?:

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

God Bless

good heavens!

Yes! - I know the Ark was in Heaven. - The Ark of the “TESTIMONY”. - Now, - not Just the Ten Commandment in STONE, and the “COVENANT”, that is in the “TESTAMONY” of the Lord / The NEW TESTANENT / NEW LAW OF FAITH! - BUT!, -- THEY ALL ARE WRITTEN IN THE HEARTS OF THE JUST, - THERE IN HEAVEN, a-l-s-o.

Paul -- 101110

 

[YahuShuan]

OOHH, MY!

NO! - You know better than that! --- They were not the, or a Covenant. -- A Covenant is a PROMISE, "A PROMISE", as was to Abraham, and to Moah. Those were Covenants with Prophesy and the promise to support it. -- COME ON! - You know better than that!
There is not a word of Promise or prophesy in the Ten Commandments, and you know it!

You guys will say anything to support your doctrine, knowing it's a lie.

You know perfictly well what a Covenant is, and yet you call the "Ten Commandments" a COVENANT, just because!

There is neither, nor was there any Prophesy or Promise with the TEN COMMANDMENTS. - That may would have made them a Covenant. BUT THEY ARE "NOT".

At 75, - and you're still playing games with the Word of God?

Paul -- 101110

You are just way wrong and can't admit it, just like Yahuweh told us in Jeremiah. We support "the desires of the FATHER"! Let's see if you can READ...

Jer 6:8-30 “Be instructed, O Yerushalayim, lest My being be torn from you, lest I make you a waste, a land not inhabited.” Thus said יהוה (YAHUWEH) of hosts, “Let them thoroughly glean as a vine the remnant of Yisra’ĕl; pass your hand again over the branches like a grape-gatherer.” To whom shall I speak and give warning, so that they hear? See, their ear is uncircumcised, and they are unable to listen. See, the word of יהוה (YAHUWEH the FATHER) is a reproach to them, they do not delight in it. Therefore I am filled with the wrath of יהוה (Yahuweh). I have become weary of containing it. “Pour it out on the children outside, and on the company of young men together, for even husband and wife shall be taken, the aged and the very old. And their houses shall be turned over to others, fields and wives together. For I shall stretch out My hand against the inhabitants of the land,” declares יהוה (Yahuweh). “For from the least of them even to the greatest of them, they are all greedy for gain. And from the prophet even to the priest, all act falsely. And they heal the breach of My people slightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace. Were they ashamed when they had done abomination? No! They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall. They shall stumble at the time I visit them,” said יהוה (Yahuweh). Thus said יהוה (Yahuweh), “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves. But they said, ‘We do not walk in it.’ “And I raised up watchmen over you, and said, ‘Listen to the sound of the ram’s horn!’ But they said, ‘We do not listen.’ “Therefore hear, you nations, and know, O congregation, what is upon them! Hear, O earth! See, I am bringing evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not listened to My words, nor My Torah – and they rejected it. What need have I of frankincense from Sheḇa, and sweet cane from a distant land? Your burnt offerings are not acceptable, and your slaughterings have not been sweet to Me.” Therefore thus said יהוה (Yahuweh), “See, I am laying stumbling-blocks before this people. And the fathers and the sons together shall stumble on them, the neighbour and his friend shall perish.” Thus said יהוה (Yahuweh), “See, a people shall come from the land of the north, and a great nation is stirred up from the farthest parts of the earth, they seize bow and spear, they are cruel and have no compassion, their voice roars like the sea. And they ride on horses, set in array as a man for battle against you, O daughter of Tsiyon.” We have heard the report of it, our hands grow weak. Distress has taken hold of us, pain as of a woman in labour. Do not go out into the field, nor walk by the way. Because of the sword of the enemy, fear is on every side. O daughter of my people, gird on sackcloth, and roll about in ashes! Make mourning as for an only son, most bitter lamentation because suddenly the ravager shall come upon us. I have made you a trier and a stronghold among My people, so that you know, and shall try their way. All of them are rebels of rebels, walking as slanderers. They are bronze and iron, all of them are corrupters. The bellows have burned, the lead has been consumed by fire. The refiner has refined in vain, for those who are evil have not been seperated. They shall call them rejected silver, because יהוה (Yahuweh) has rejected them.”

All because most Bible based religions "refuse" His Torah! This is not about "doctrine" this is about the "DESIRES OF THE FATHER"! Not your own "doctrine" which comes from the words of men. Torah is FOREVER. Or don't you get what that word means? You will miss the "time of visitation" because you are stumbling because of the stumbling blocks Yahuweh has laid down in front of you because your offerings are not sweet whatsoever to Him. There is no refiner refining you, because the "refiner" RESTORES, and the "Teacher" "brings to your remembrance", but since you say "we do not listen" then you ARE getting what He told us through Jeremiah just what HE SAID. Every single part of that, the Bible based religions are reaping, right now, right in front of your faces, and truly, the "refiner has refined in vain" when it comes to you who still say "we do not listen".

But you can't see that can you? Point made.