The Supernatural Is Really Heaven's Natural Laws At Work.

[JAG]

"Christianity is magical"__ John Internet Poster

JAG Replies:
Not to be picky, but there is nothing "magical" involved in Christianity's
supernaturalism.
There are natural laws in the unseen world and, in my view, one of those
laws is that physical material reality can be changed and manipulated
for the good, by thought processes. For example, my view is that when
Jesus healed people, He was exercising His power to use the natural
laws of Heaven, to do good here on earth ~ and of course that appears
to us, in our present condition, to be supernatural. But to Jesus, it was
natural to have the power to heal human diseases by merely speaking
words. Even to raise dead people. "Lazarus come out", said the
Lord Jesus, and Lazarus, who had been dead for four (4) days came out
of the tomb. (That's in John chapter 11.)

Jesus merely spoke words to a fig tree and the fig tree instantly died.
Jesus was using that situation as a teaching moment, to teach His disciples
how to do things like that ~~ and later on, in the book of Acts, they DID do
things like that.
( Matthew 21:19 tells about the fig tree incident.)

Thoughts?



``

 

[Bradley D]

I would not use the word magic, but miracle. A miracle is divine intervention.

 

[JAG]

I would not use the word magic, but miracle. A miracle is divine intervention.

Agreed.
That's why I said this in the OP:
"Not to be picky, but there is nothing "magical" involved in Christianity's
supernaturalism."__JAG

Best.

JAG


``

 

[Derf]

"Christianity is magical"__ John Internet Poster

JAG Replies:
Not to be picky, but there is nothing "magical" involved in Christianity's
supernaturalism.
There are natural laws in the unseen world and, in my view, one of those
laws is that physical material reality can be changed and manipulated
for the good, by thought processes. For example, my view is that when
Jesus healed people, He was exercising His power to use the natural
laws of Heaven, to do good here on earth ~ and of course that appears
to us, in our present condition, to be supernatural. But to Jesus, it was
natural to have the power to heal human diseases by merely speaking
words. Even to raise dead people. "Lazarus come out", said the
Lord Jesus, and Lazarus, who had been dead for four (4) days came out
of the tomb. (That's in John chapter 11.)

Jesus merely spoke words to a fig tree and the fig tree instantly died.
Jesus was using that situation as a teaching moment, to teach His disciples
how to do things like that ~~ and later on, in the book of Acts, they DID do
things like that.
( Matthew 21:19 tells about the fig tree incident.)

Thoughts?



``

I expect there are laws in heaven, but if Jesus made heaven and earth, why would He be any more restrained by the heavenly laws than by the earthly laws?

 

[JAG]

I expect there are laws in heaven, but if Jesus made heaven and earth, why would He be any more restrained by the heavenly laws than by the earthly laws?

I don't think He was restrained by any laws.
Was there something in the OP that made you think that was asserted?

Best.

JAG

``

 

[Derf]

You said he uses heavenly laws to do miracles on earth. Can he not do miracles in heaven, which might be termed super supernatural, if he made the heavens? In other words, if he acts outside the laws of the environment he created, either heaven or earth, that’s miraculous.

 

[JAG]

You said he uses heavenly laws to do miracles on earth. Can he not do miracles in heaven, which might be termed super supernatural, if he made the heavens? In other words, if he acts outside the laws of the environment he created, either heaven or earth, that’s miraculous.

My view is that there is no "supernatural" in the life of the Lord Jesus
but that he uses the natural laws of Heaven to do mighty deeds both in
Heaven and on earth.

"Supernatural - of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force
beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature"

Question for you: Did Jesus ever perform even one deed, that was beyond
His scientific understanding of the laws of nature? My answer to that question
is No, He did not. For example, when He SPOKE to that fig tree, and the fig tree
died, that act, in the mind of the Lord Jesus was NOT supernatural. It was only Him
using the natural laws of Heaven here on earth. Now Him doing that, appeared to
us to be supernatural because we right now, do not know and understand the natural
scientific laws of heaven. In Heaven they move things around and do mighty
deeds by speaking faith-words. "You can SAY to this mountain move from here to there
and it will move" Matthew 17:20

"You can SAY to this mulberry tree be uprooted and planted in the sea and it will obey you"
Luke 17:6

Best.

JAG


``

 

[Derf]

My view is that there is no "supernatural" in the life of the Lord Jesus
but that he uses the natural laws of Heaven to do mighty deeds both in
Heaven and on earth.

"Supernatural - of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force
beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature"

Question for you: Did Jesus ever perform even one deed, that was beyond
His scientific understanding of the laws of nature? My answer to that question
is No, He did not. For example, when He SPOKE to that fig tree, and the fig tree
died, that act, in the mind of the Lord Jesus was NOT supernatural. It was only Him
using the natural laws of Heaven here on earth. Now Him doing that, appeared to
us to be supernatural because we right now, do not know and understand the natural
scientific laws of heaven. In Heaven they move things around and do mighty
deeds by speaking faith-words. "You can SAY to this mountain move from here to there
and it will move" Matthew 17:20

"You can SAY to this mulberry tree be uprooted and planted in the sea and it will obey you"
Luke 17:6

Best.

JAG


``

I appreciate the clarification, but my question stands. You’re basing your speculation about Jesus’ miracles here on earth on a speculation about heaven, which we have no info about in terms of its “natural” laws.

It’s fine as a speculation—and I encourage people to speculate on the things we don’t know everything about, so that we can potentially discern more by testing our speculations against scripture.

I guess the next step for you is to try to refute your own speculation with scripture.

One of the problems you’ll have is discerning what things from the scriptural accounts of heaven are actual, vs poetic or parabolic or prophetic, which will be much harder than discerning such things about earth-focused scripture for the same reason I mentioned above: we have personal experience here on earth, but none in heaven.

 

[JAG]

I appreciate the clarification, but my question stands. You’re basing your speculation about Jesus’ miracles here on earth on a speculation about heaven, which we have no info about in terms of its “natural” laws.

It’s fine as a speculation—and I encourage people to speculate on the things we don’t know everything about, so that we can potentially discern more by testing our speculations against scripture.

I guess the next step for you is to try to refute your own speculation with scripture.

One of the problems you’ll have is discerning what things from the scriptural accounts of heaven are actual, vs poetic or parabolic or prophetic, which will be much harder than discerning such things about earth-focused scripture for the same reason I mentioned above: we have personal experience here on earth, but none in heaven.

I don't, at the present time, have any thing else to add to what I have said in the thread.
Thank you for your interest in the OP and for your contribution to the thread.

God Bless.

JAG

``