the Sibbie & Knight

[BillyBob]

OK, so does Freak agree that murderers and child molesters should be executed?

 

[Lighthouse]

Has anyone e-mailed Sozo about this?

 

[Freak]

When there is a change of dispensations that does not mean that all of the principles of God from a previous dispensation are thrown into the trash heap.As it says in the New Scofield Study Bible:

Never said anything to the contrary. I simply believe we understand the Old clearer through the lens of the New. Would you not agree?

Since the Lord has placed us under governments in order to protect human lfe it would seem unreasonable to suppose that now captial punishment has no place in government.After all,that protection was the main reason for human government in the first place.

In His grace,--Jerry
”Dispensationalism Made Easy”
http://midacts.net/studies/shugart-dispensationalism_made_easy.html

Jerry, I asked you to take a jab at my questions and you didn't. Would you please do so. Thanks.

 

[Freak]

OK, so does Freak agree that murderers and child molesters should be executed?

Yes. I believe God ideally wants the governments of the world to punish evil doers (murderers, molestors, rapists, etc) via the death penalty. However, the governments of the world should allow the free flow of the gospel to those who might be put to death, to allow them the opportunity to trust Jesus Christ as Lord.

It appears the way the governments of the world are heading--Biblical Law will be further and further away from their minds. Furthermore, the governments are endorsing unBiblical laws (i.e. abortion laws and homosexual unions) as a result of rebelling against the standards set by holy God. Though, we are to 'occupy" until He comes--striving to the encourage the governments of the world to adopt Biblical Law, to restrain evil.

God has allowed periods for His mercy to reign on those guilty of capital crimes (i.e. mothers who opted killing their babies). It's amazing God's mercy and grace, that He would allow millions of mothers to kill their own babies without directly causing the governments of the world to call people (i.e. those guilty of the capital crimes) to the death penalty.

 

[BillyBob]

Though, we are to 'occupy" until He comes--striving to encourage the governments of the world to adopt Biblical Law, to restrain evil.

That ain't gonna happen.......:nono:

 

[Freak]

That ain't gonna happen.......:nono:

Probably not, since man (and those representing governments) is becoming increasingly more evil. However, the call to the death penalty can be utilized as a powerful evangelistic tool to awaken sinners.

 

[BillyBob]

Probably not, since man (and those representing governments) is becoming increasingly more evil. However, the call to the death penalty can be utilized as a powerful evangelistic tool to awaken sinners.

Well, now that's fine. But it will be up to people to do to the evangelism, governments won't.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, I asked you to take a jab at my questions and you didn't. Would you please do so. Thanks.

Freak,

OK!

My question is this: Does God ordain the government, in this dispensation, to put criminals to death?

It would seem that He does:

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God...For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; forhe beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil'(Ro.13:1,4).

When Paul speaks of revenging wrath upon those that do evil he uses the phrase "sword".I find it difficult that this could refer to anything other than capital punishment.

For example, Jerry...

The Samaritan Woman in John 4 was guilty of adultery and yet Jesus restored her and did not call for her to report to the governing authorities to be put to death.

The Lord did not speak a word against captial punishment when the Jewish authorities were trying Him for making Himself "the Son of God",and that was a captial offense (Jn.19:7).

And in regard to the woman who was guilty of adultery the Lord was not using this event as a teaching that captial punishment has been done away,but instead we should understand it in the following way:

"And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy"(Ex.33:19).

The Apostle Paul was a murderer and yet when Jesus encountered him He did not command Paul to report to the governing authorities to be put to death.

You may, say, Freak, the governing authorities were not putting those guilty of killing of Christians (as they were endorsing it) to death. So, does God extend mercy when the government refuses to put those guilty of captial crimes to death? And only does He?

The Lord did not extend mercy to the authorities in Israel,as they received their justice in 70 AD when Jerusalem was destroyed.

And Paul's salvation and deliverance from the death penalty was also in regard to Exodus 33:19.

The Christians in Corinth (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11) who were formerly "sexually immoral," "idolaters," "adulterers," "male prostitutes," and "homosexual offenders"--all of which were capital offences in the Old Testament, were not called upon the apostle Paul to report to the governing authorities to be put to death.

You may, say, Freak, the governing authorities were not putting those guilty of homosexuality, idolatry, etc to death. So, does God extend mercy when the government refuses to put those guilty of captial crimes to death? And only does He?

Even during the present dispensation the Lord will sometimes put believers to death(1Cor.11:30,1Jn.5:16).

In His grace,--Jerry
”Dispensationalism Made Easy”
http://midacts.net/studies/shugart-dispensationalism_made_easy.html

 

[Delmar]

Great Thread!

 

[Freak]

Freak,

Even during the present dispensation the Lord will sometimes put believers to death(1Cor.11:30,1Jn.5:16).

In His grace,--Jerry
”Dispensationalism Made Easy”
http://midacts.net/studies/shugart-dispensationalism_made_easy.html

Yes, I know and I agree. I have shared this very truth with others on various threads.

 

[Freak]

On a personal note allow me to say this. Never give up on sharing the truth as the truth needs to be told and it can open the hearts of those reading (like mine).

Yes, the death penalty is not a essential doctrine of the Christian faith, in that salvation is not hinged upon if one believes the government has a right to put people to death. Many believers disagree on this issue. However, I NOW believe the death penalty has a divine purpose for those living under the New Covenant.

 

[Crow]

On a personal note allow me to say this. Never give up on sharing the truth as the truth needs to be told and it can open the hearts of those reading (like mine).

Yes, the death penalty is not a essential doctrine of the Christian faith, in that salvation is not hinged upon if one believes the government has a right to put people to death. Many believers disagree on this issue. However, I NOW believe the death penalty has a divine purpose for those living under the New Covenant.

POTD:first:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

On a personal note allow me to say this. Never give up on sharing the truth as the truth needs to be told and it can open the hearts of those reading (like mine).

Yes, the death penalty is not a essential doctrine of the Christian faith, in that salvation is not hinged upon if one believes the government has a right to put people to death. Many believers disagree on this issue. However, I NOW believe the death penalty has a divine purpose for those living under the New Covenant.

That is really exciting!

And as an evangelist you will now have a very powerful tool in your witness!

 

[Freak]

That is really exciting!

It truly is.

And as an evangelist you will now have a very powerful tool in your witness!

You're right and I'm looking forward to utilizing it. I appreciate YOU for staying the course on this issue with me. I was wrong.

 

[BillyBob]

You're right and I'm looking forward to utilizing it. I appreciate YOU for staying the course on this issue with me. I was wrong.

You're welcome.

 

[Freak]

You're welcome.

You were right on this issue, however, it was Knight's and the Sibbie's posts (and statements) that God used specifically.

 

[BillyBob]

Whatever it takes. I'm happy to welcome you to the club.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

You're right and I'm looking forward to utilizing it. I appreciate YOU for staying the course on this issue with me. I was wrong.

And I appreciate your honesty within this thread.

I think I will close this thread if you don't mind.

I like the tone of it and the way it ended.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

On a personal note allow me to say this. Never give up on sharing the truth as the truth needs to be told and it can open the hearts of those reading (like mine).

Yes, the death penalty is not a essential doctrine of the Christian faith, in that salvation is not hinged upon if one believes the government has a right to put people to death. Many believers disagree on this issue. However, I NOW believe the death penalty has a divine purpose for those living under the New Covenant.

POTD :first:

 

[Freak]

And I appreciate your honesty within this thread.

I think I will close this thread if you don't mind.

I like the tone of it and the way it ended.

Thanks Knight for allowing me the opportunity to add this:

I remember Knight saying, years ago, to me in a personal conversation (I think it was in the chat room), that my ministry would be enhanced if I would just understand the death penalty, more clearly. He was right! Furthermore, some of his logic (dervived from Scripture) on this very issue was on target.

Then Sibbie's post the other day, God used. Later that night I had a dream about me being in a bookstore looking for information that I could use to battle the "pro-death penalty" crowd. It was futile for God was FOR the death penalty. In the dream I was scrambling around--for nought.

I haven't been in a bookstore in a long time (and I never looked for anti-death penalty materials) but the dream was used of God to speak to my spirit that I was running from the TRUTH and in light of Scripture--I WAS!!!