Right Divider
Body part
Like I said, you confirmation bias will not allow you to see anything else.
Fake news.
The Saving results of the Death of Christ !
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Right Divider
Body part
Fake news again.
Baptism is not water... it is identification.
Water baptism is water and is related to the nation of Israel and their priesthood.
Derf
Well-known member
You would know.
Said the man as all his previous points went down in flames.
Right Divider
Body part
Keep believing whatever you like. No need to be correct.
Derf
Well-known member
Again, you would know.
As you can't answer my question affirmatively, it is clear that the baptism of the Holy Ghost cannot make one free from sin.
Or at least you haven't been made free from sinning..
Yes, it does.
How can one who is free from sin still not be free from sin?
He was the first, after Enoch, Elias, and John the Baptist.
Thanks to Jesus though, now we can all be free like Jesus is.
As long as you believe that you will never be free from sin.
I died with Christ at my "immersion" into Him and into His death, and I was buried with Him and I was raised from the dead with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-4)
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
That isn't symbolic either.
Thanks be to God you are incorrect.
I have learned very much from Peter's writings to the body of Christ.
And from John and James too.
Coming from a confused person that is high praise.
The truth will set you free, just as Jesus said in John 8:32-34.
It is relevant, as it shows the apostles did indeed teach in foreign lands and not to just Jews.
The bible says nothing about the deaths of the apostles, save James, so what biblical text provides the agendas and lives of the other eleven apostles?
There's is a derail if I ever saw one.
Isn't that what you prefer I think?
That the Jewish apostles only dealt with Jews?
Why ignore the fact that they dealt with other than Jews well before Paul's conversion.
Then Jesus is more than, as you posted, a minister to the circumcision.
He is, in fact, a minister to the entire world with no regard for ancestry.
It was only by the grace of God that Peter was sent there.
It was by the grace of God that Peter received his vision that proved to him, and me but not you, that all men are equal.
Why isn't the grace of God effective in your life so you too can see all men as equals?
So did Paul.
It is written..."And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more." (Acts 20:25)
"And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him." (Acts 28:30-31)
Five more times in 1 Corinthians.
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Are you still waiting for another Christ who is not named Jesus?
If I hadn't listened I would never have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, (Gal 5:24), in order to be free from committing sin !
Thanks be to God for the truth.
And for allowing us to now walk after the Spirit instead of after the "flesh".
Do you think being reborn is necessary for salvation?
As that happens when we are "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life" at our water baptism, (Rom 6:4), it does seem necessary for salvation.
Derf
Well-known member
We are raised to walk in newNESS of life, but we aren't raised yet to our new life. It's "like as Christ was raised up from the dead".
Romans 6:5 RSV — For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
That part of salvation still needs to happen. But we can "reckon ourselves" to be dead to sin (Rom 6:11), even though we aren't yet actually dead to sin.
So we aren't yet fully born again, but we should act like we are.
Right Divider
Body part
That's retarded.
You poor confused person. Thank God that there is still a chance for you to know the truth.
You're going back on my ignore list. Enjoy your continued confusion.
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If our "old man" is destroyed, (v6), what is raised with Christ is a new life/creature.
More than necessary.
If we have the faith to believe we are killed with Him we also have the faith to believe we are raised with Him.
That is not about the resurrection of the dead on the day of judgement.
It is about our being raised with Christ from His death and burial.
How I wish you had the faith to believe death with Christ is available to you, and all men, now.
With that death comes our rebirth.
You can't "act like it" if it didn't happen.
When do you think rebirth happens?
I must occur before one can see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)
The truth shall make you free...from committing sin. (John 8:32-34)
And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren.And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them.But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles.And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me:Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name.And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:‘After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up;So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the Lord who does all these things.’“Known to God from eternity are all His works.Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “ You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment—it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell. - Acts 15:1-29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts15:1-29&version=NKJV
Derf
Well-known member
Then the Ephesians are confused by what Paul wrote:
Ephesians 4:21-23 KJV — If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
They were told they had to do something, that it wasn't already accomplished merely by their baptism. And they had to be renewed in the Spirit of their minds, because they weren't yet renewed in their bodies.
Even if we have the faith to believe Him, we still have this body of flesh to deal with.
Romans 7:24-25 KJV — O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
No, it's about our resurrection, for which we trust Him. And trusting Him gives is a new perspective on life, so that we no longer "eat and drink for tomorrow we die." Rather we buffet our bodies to bring them under submission.
1 Corinthians 9:27 ASV — but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.
It's an ongoing work, not an accomplished feat.
Death with Christ isn't available because Christ is no longer dead.
You can only act like it if it didn't happen.
I think the rebirth happens when we actually die and are resurrected. Before then we have a down payment, an earnest or promise, of the future event because we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
That Spirit is the spirit we need to enliven our dead bodies when we die, just as God breathed into Adam the breath of life and he became a living soul.
Genesis 2:7 KJV — And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
James 2:26 KJV — For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
2 Corinthians 5:5 HNV — Now he who made us for this very thing is God, who also gave to us the down payment of the Spirit.
What is this thing we don't have yet, but only have the down payment? Everlasting life:
2 Corinthians 5:4 KJV — For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
You currently only have the promise of everlasting life, because you are still going to die some day, unless the Lord returns.
1 Corinthians 15:53 KJV — For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Not necessarily.
We don't know if everyone at Eph. knew what the OG's, (older converts), knew so this may have been info' for newbies...or men searching for the truth 2000 years later.
On the other hand, if the OG's were not exhibiting Christ in their walks, it is a sign they didn't have faith in what happens at water baptism.
What was the last sin your skin and bones committed?
How can your "flesh" do anything without the mind's initialization of the act.
(I'm getting tired of folks blaming their hands and eyes for their sins.)
Answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
There you see the choice the faithful are given.
Serve the mind oriented on Christ.
The flesh was killed with Christ.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
When the word "flesh" is mentioned in scripture it is most often the worldly oriented mind that is being discussed, not the skin and bone vessel of the Holy Ghost.
Though in Gal 5:24 it is both, in Rom 7:25 it is the mind that is the topic of Paul's epilogue of Rom 7.
It is about our being raised with Christ after we were killed and buried with Him.
"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Rom 6:4-5)
The context is about the water baptism the new creature just raised with Christ, and after its death and burial with Christ, have experienced.
Killed with Him-raised with Him.
Were that the unfortunate truth, nobody would be writing about its completion.
I am writing about the God ordained difference water baptism had on me and those with me.
Our old worldly oriented selves were killed, and made new in Christ.
The adherents of your doctrine will never complete their artificial "ongoing" trek.
It is an accommodation for sin.
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins accomplishes by faith what is impossible for heathens to comprehend.
Death, and life, with Christ is available to all who will turn permanently from sin
Don't "act" like it, participate in it !
It will be too late by then
It is written..."And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" (Heb 9:27)
No mention of repentance or rebirth in that scenario.
Who then are those raised in the resurrection of damnation? (John 5:29)
If sinners can go their lives continuing to walk after the fleshly oriented mind, why would they ever be granted rebirth, much less eternal life?
What is the "wages of death" written of in Rom 6:23?
Death...right?
Consider this..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
Our judgement for past sins means death.
That death occurs when we are "immersed" into Christ's death...by water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
The new creature raise from the grave with Christ will never die.
With or without its "shell", the "new man" lives forever.
Kill the old man now, and walk in newness of life.
It is written..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:4)
We can't exhibit a new life, glorifying God, among the needy, after our vessel perishes.
What we don't have yet is the glorified body, as Paul discussed in Phil 3:21..."Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."
My everlasting life has already started !
As I said above, I am already living my new life, by faith in Christ Jesus.
I do, however, await my new vessel.
This question shows just how confused you are.
Paul isn't talking about skin and bones, hands and eyes, in this context.
He's talking about the carnal desires of the body, the "flesh."
If it's impossible to sin after becoming saved, then why did the Twelve admonish Paul's converts to not commit certain sins? Would that not be pointless?
Isn't it pointless for you to tell someone not to do something they are incapable of doing to begin with? Otherwise, what's the point?
Because of God's Grace which covers them. That's what grace means, Hoping!
But you're not sinless. You still lie, for one, about being sinless.
How so?
Perhaps it is some other site where I have met someone who says they cannot be perfect because they still have a "body".
Agreed !
The worldly oriented mind, which those now in Christ have forsaken, to the glory of God.
"Saved" will happen on the day of judgement.
Till then, we are to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling". (Phil 2:12)
The exhortations and admonissions of our pastors and deacons are to keep us on the razor's edge, and constantly on guard for our very souls.
Committing a sin would illustrate one was not reborn of God's seed, and was still a child of the devil. (1 John 3:9-10)
Committing sin isn't impossible, but those born of God don't do it.
Wasn't it possible for Jesus to commit sin?
But He didn't, and we can now follow His example.
Is it pointless to tell a loved one to "be careful" every time you part company?
Besides, not every man has heard all that older converts may be privy to.
I didn't know anything about life in Christ till I heard of and read the exhortations 2000 years after they were written.
How many times are too many to hear..."Be ye holy for I am holy"?
Jesus wouldn't have needed to suffer and die for the false "doctrine of invisibility".
God's grace doesn't blind Him to reality.
Prove it.
If you are sure of your accusation, prove it !
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Derf
Well-known member
1 John 1:8 KJV — If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
John was including himself in the "we". You must be greater than John was in your perfection.
False.
Ephesians 1:13, 2:6
Confusion reigns within you.
This is not saying we are to work FOR our salvation. It means that we put effort into our walk with Christ.
You don't put effort into something that you automatically do.
What does it matter, if you're guaranteed not to sin no matter what?
Sorry, but that verse is NOT saying that Christians do not sin. It's not even talking about Christians.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Either it's impossible for a Christian to sin, or it's not. Which is it?
Yes.
Because He's perfect.
We are not.
We can try to. But because of our sin nature, because of our flesh, we will still sometimes sin. Hence why Paul tells us to PUT EFFORT into our salvation.
You don't get strong just by signing up for a gym membership. You have to actually go work out, eat properly, not eat junk food, and you have to KEEP doing that, or you will lose the progress you've made.
It is if it's guaranteed that nothing bad will happen to them after.
There's no point in telling someone to be holy if they're already holy. No?
Never said it did.
Christ's blood paid for our sins, past, present, and future. When God looks at our account, He sees Christ, not a dead man wallowing in his sins.
Unmerited favor.
We did NOTHING to earn eternal life. But God freely offered it to us, by sending His Son to die on the cross, for him to be buried, and then rise again on the third day.
Every post you make where you claim to no longer sin is my evidence that you are lying, because Scripture says otherwise.