The origins of abiotic species

6days

New member
"The origin-of-life field is often guilty of ascribing personality to molecules. You see this in the popular literature, but even the serious scientists slip into the habit. It takes the form of an invisible hand, directing the assembly of multiple parts like a foreman at a construction site. Need a membrane? Here are some fatty acids that can make a simple one for starters. Need a replicator? This RNA isn't great, but he can learn. Need proteins? We found some in this meteorite that are willing to lend a left hand.

A more realistic image would be an arena of dead runners surrounded by hurdles as high as mountains. They don't "want" to leap over the hurdles and win a race to become alive, because they can't. They're dead. So are molecules often dubbed "The building blocks of life." They have no interest in jumping over hurdles on a path to a protocell......."
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2016/01/what_origin-of-102101.html
 

noguru

Well-known member
"The origin-of-life field is often guilty of ascribing personality to molecules. You see this in the popular literature, but even the serious scientists slip into the habit. It takes the form of an invisible hand, directing the assembly of multiple parts like a foreman at a construction site. Need a membrane? Here are some fatty acids that can make a simple one for starters. Need a replicator? This RNA isn't great, but he can learn. Need proteins? We found some in this meteorite that are willing to lend a left hand.

A more realistic image would be an arena of dead runners surrounded by hurdles as high as mountains. They don't "want" to leap over the hurdles and win a race to become alive, because they can't. They're dead. So are molecules often dubbed "The building blocks of life." They have no interest in jumping over hurdles on a path to a protocell......."
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2016/01/what_origin-of-102101.html

Another completely inaccurate analysis of science. I am not surprised it fools people like you though.

6days, question for you. Why do reasonable people not listen to people like you?

:think:

Because you have no idea what you are talking about, and you have to use "God" to try and redeem the 0 credibility of your daft ideas. That strategy might work for you in church. Sorry, it don't work like that in science.
 

Jose Fly

New member
"The origin-of-life field is often guilty of ascribing personality to molecules. You see this in the popular literature, but even the serious scientists slip into the habit. It takes the form of an invisible hand, directing the assembly of multiple parts like a foreman at a construction site. Need a membrane? Here are some fatty acids that can make a simple one for starters. Need a replicator? This RNA isn't great, but he can learn. Need proteins? We found some in this meteorite that are willing to lend a left hand.

A more realistic image would be an arena of dead runners surrounded by hurdles as high as mountains. They don't "want" to leap over the hurdles and win a race to become alive, because they can't. They're dead. So are molecules often dubbed "The building blocks of life." They have no interest in jumping over hurdles on a path to a protocell......."
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2016/01/what_origin-of-102101.html

Thanks for posting that from folks sitting on the sideline. Meanwhile in the real world of science, things continue on as before with no regard for these people.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
:think:
We need God, just not people like you.

I know you would like to make yourself out to be important by hanging your hat on the "God" rack. But we all know what you are all about.

Where did dirt come from? Do you have any idea?

Your joke has absolutely nothing to do with researching the natural world. Nice try. It works with people like Stripe, but not anyone with half a working brain.

Honestly, you have no clue what I am about. I am a Christian first and a biologist after that and a technologist after that.

And I completely enjoy the fruits of the Spirit displayed in your post.

Rage on, meanie.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
a biotic~

alpha privative "a" - negation

biotic - life

abiotic = not alive

abiotic "species"...light, temperature, atmospheric gases.

:rolleyes:

whatever...
 
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noguru

Well-known member
Elements? Where did they come from? The Higgs boson, where did it come from?

You can keep going back further into history and talk about the cosmological processes involved with the elements in another thread if you want, but I was not really addressing that in my OP. If you want to turn science into a platform to broadcast your religion, then I'm not really interested in that discussion with you. Is that OK with you?
 

noguru

Well-known member
No can do. It has been my experience that you either have one or you don't. Sort of like a leg. The condition is congenital.

I have a good sense of humor. His joke about dirt was just stupid. It is one I hear at AA meetings all the time. Those wet brains seem to love that juvenile humor. :)
 

noguru

Well-known member
I've always liked this joke, because it actually serves as a very good illustration of the ever-retreating nature of the God of the Gaps argument. Think of all the gaps theists used to be able to put their God into just 100 years ago. Now they're mostly relegated to the "Where did the universe come from" gap, as this joke shows.

The joke is absurd. I cringe every time I hear it. Just like I do when I hear people read "The Chapter to Agnostic" from AA. It is painfully inaccurate and yet people really get into it. I usually just keep my mouth shut, because I don't like to offend people. But Theopilus insulted my intelligence with the joke, because I was not trying to disprove God with the OP. I know that is how a lot of the "God of The Gaps" apologists see much scientific research. But that is their problem, not mine.
 
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noguru

Well-known member
So far all I have from most here is fear that I am threatening their belief in God. That was not really my intention, but since I can see things in the terms of the "God of The Gaps" apologists, I can understand why that happened. But I am imploring you folks to leave your fears behind here and address the research in the OP.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
So far all I have from most here is fear that I am threatening their belief in God. That was not really my intention, but since I can see things in the terms of the "God of The Gaps" apologists, I can understand why that happened. But I am imploring you folks to leave your fears behind here and address the research in the OP.

Please place the "god of the gaps" into the proper waste receptacle please.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
So far all I have from most here is fear that I am threatening their belief in God. That was not really my intention, but since I can see things in the terms of the "God of The Gaps" apologists, I can understand why that happened. But I am imploring you folks to leave your fears behind here and address the research in the OP.
Evolutionists hate reading.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
noguru,

Your opening salvo was "read this and comment" and "reach for the stars." As a "rule" people who post links without commenting on their link themselves usually turn out to be trolls (the behavior speaks for itself). When I responded with humor and others said what they said you reacted badly with your accusation about "hanging our hats on a God rack blah, blah, blah..." I read your article (you didn't know) spurring my little joke, which you didn't approve of. We love you anyway because God commands us to. We're also here to serve you as we would serve ourselves and, frankly, we're pretty hard on each other so I apologize in advance for being an ignorant snob. I still love you anyway. Forgive me for making up words, too. :D

Apparently you have decided we're NOT scientists (on a Christian website - imagine that) and we don't claim to be geniuses (after all Christianity is a crutch and reason enough for applicational ignorance) so why even post literature on chemistry? Are you spoiling for a reason to call us stoopid? I can take it but cannot answer for others.

And because I'm a pretty happy dumb-*** I'm STILL going to give you my opinion/comment on your article).

Life can not originate from lifeless chemical soup. It's "fun" to write smart-sounding grant applications and get lots of money for experiments and there is much to be learned from such but the bottom line is still that science will never prove how life began. Ever. Science doesn't prove anything.

Self-organization? Elements and compounds don't self-purposely organize themselves without input from outside the system (food, death, etc...from your article). A bigger illustration would be toys strewn about a child's room. They never put themselves away. The principle applies here.

Autocatalysis? The reaction products are reactants. Catalysts affect the rate of a reaction. Boiling water comes to mind, or freezing water, you choose. Interesting that things catabolyse themselves to create more of themselves. That's beyond me.

***You Do know science doesn't PROVE anything, right?

Self-replicating molecules bring to mind the association and dissociation of, say, the polar bonds in water molecules...broken and re-formed in less than a nanosecond. IF I add "food" I may end up with hydrogen peroxide or ozone or heavy water or something else, but not "life." Google Jesus on "living water."

I don't know enough about Game Theory to speak on replicator mutants but they were creepy cool on Stargate and Criminal Minds.

This is what you get for posting a chemistry/biochemistry article on a board lacking science majors. Essentially, I don't understand anything about your article except that someone wants to postulate on how life began and they have devised an experiment that makes them happy.

This is my opinion/comment.

Sincerely,

-me

Please enjoy ANY opportunity to call me whatever. Just keep it clean enough for these boards.
 
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