ECT The official AAL interp of the new covenant

I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
Why hadn't it vanished yet when Hebrews was written?
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Why are you so ignorant that you can't realize another question out of what you just read? These things are not just 'theology' they are also history and conditions on the ground.

The temple had not yet been destroyed and Acts 26 says the Jews were intent on continuing to try to realize their 'hope' through steady worship.

Then I just explained what the militant ones thought of that.
 
N

northwye

New member
The preterist sees with only one eye. He sees the first part of the prophetic revelation which is the
remaking of Old Covenant Israel into the Redeemed Israel of Luke 1: 68-69, that is, the transformation of the Old Covenant into the New Covenant. But the one eyed preterist does not see the later prophetic revelation on the falling away from sound doctrine which occurs in a time period beyond the rise of the Catholic Church as an early falling away.

The Christian Zionist does not see either part of the prophetic revelation very well. He makes a dialectic argument opposing the remaking of Old Covenant Israel which the preterist can see to a great extent. The Christian Zionist cannot see what Paul says in II Corinthians 3: 7 and 3: 11 and in Hebrews 10: 9, that Christ did away with the Old Covenant so he could establish the New Covenant.

Neither the preterist nor the Christian Zionist can see the prophetic revelation about a falling away from sound doctrine in the churches in a time period after the falling away of the Roman Catholic Church. The present day church - in Christian Zionism or in some other church theology such as preterism - does not have eyes to see its own apostasy.

So, when a preterist and a Christian Zionist get into a "dialogue," we can see all kinds of dialectic tactics being fired off. Neither have eyes to see that the dialectic itself is deception and apostasy.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Why are you so ignorant that you can't realize another question out of what you just read? These things are not just 'theology' they are also history and conditions on the ground.

The temple had not yet been destroyed and Acts 26 says the Jews were intent on continuing to try to realize their 'hope' through steady worship.

Then I just explained what the militant ones thought of that.
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How can the Old and New co-exist?
Break it down for us, with scripture.
 
J

jsanford108

New member
Not to intrude, but the Old Testament does coexist with the New Testament. Hence, the Bible.

The Old Covenant was made new in Christ. That does not mean done away with. The Old Covenant was made complete in Christ. If I have a completed puzzle, that does not make the first pieces void or done away with. It means I now have the full and completed plan. Also, Christ never came to do away with the laws of the Old Testament. He even says that a couple of times in the Gospels. It is also evident since He participates in the Old Law Traditions, such as the Passover, attending Temple, dietary restrictions, etc.

As I said, not trying to interrupt this interesting conversation; just trying to add some facts/evidence to the discussion.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
jsanford108 said:
Not to intrude, but the Old Testament does coexist with the New Testament. Hence, the Bible.

The Old Covenant was made new in Christ. That does not mean done away with. The Old Covenant was made complete in Christ. If I have a completed puzzle, that does not make the first pieces void or done away with. It means I now have the full and completed plan. Also, Christ never came to do away with the laws of the Old Testament. He even says that a couple of times in the Gospels. It is also evident since He participates in the Old Law Traditions, such as the Passover, attending Temple, dietary restrictions, etc.

As I said, not trying to interrupt this interesting conversation; just trying to add some facts/evidence to the discussion.
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Are you related to Marcus "Lamont" Sanford?
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
THE RESULTS OF THE NEW COVENANT:
Let's just read it & believe what we read!




Jer 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

38 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the city shall be built to the Lord from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.

40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the Lord; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever
 
N

northwye

New member
Christian Zionism does not know the difference between the multitude in Old Covenant Israel and the remnant of Israel in Isaiah 10: 20-23, Zephaniah 3: 12-13, Romans 9: 27, Romans 11; 5: Revelation 12: 17, Revelation 7: 2-8 and Revelation 14: 1-5. This is one reason why it is another Gospel and in opposition to the Gospel of Christ.

One way of seeing the transformation from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant is seeing that the New Covenant owes something to the remnant of Old Covenant Israel and not to the multitude of Old Covenant Israel. At the time Christ appeared the multitude of Old Covenant Israel was in the religion of the Pharisees. Find out what Christ said about them in John 8.

The prophetic revelation pointing to the transition from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant - the remaking of Israel - is in II Kings 21: 13, Isaiah 29: 16 and Jeremiah 18: 1-6. Other Old Testament texts predict specific events and traits of Jesus Christ.

"But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." II Corinthians 3: 7-11

The Old Covenant was done away and Hebrews 10: 9 is not the only text which says this.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
Ready to vanish=vanished?

:idunno:
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I assume you realize this is one of the key NT background questions. Why, for ex., is Mt 23 saying (in real time) the 'house is desolate' some 40 years before it happens--in the same real time as the Mt 23 declaration?

Likewise Paul in I thess 1 but several years later/closer to the destruction.

I don't know.

What we do know about Hebrews is that he was drawing a parallel for Israel, for the 2nd time in its existence, about a critical generation of 40 years, and this 2nd one was near the end. In the comparison, Judaism is the 'wilderness', faith in the Gospel is 'the land' of plenty and blessing to be entered. (This comparison, and your inability to grasp it, makes it very difficult to discuss Hebrews with you, because literalism destroys the ability to do analogies).

The answer if often the situation on the ground: as late at Acts 26, Judaism is still described as 'worshipping night and day' to see the fulfillment of its hopes happen, which Paul is trying to tell them is the resurrection of Christ.

So your question is actually: why do people keep believing an obsolete message when the Gospel is around?
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
I assume you realize this is one of the key NT background questions. Why, for ex., is Mt 23 saying (in real time) the 'house is desolate' some 40 years before it happens--in the same real time as the Mt 23 declaration?

Likewise Paul in I thess 1 but several years later/closer to the destruction.

I don't know.

What we do know about Hebrews is that he was drawing a parallel for Israel, for the 2nd time in its existence, about a critical generation of 40 years, and this 2nd one was near the end. In the comparison, Judaism is the 'wilderness', faith in the Gospel is 'the land' of plenty and blessing to be entered. (This comparison, and your inability to grasp it, makes it very difficult to discuss Hebrews with you, because literalism destroys the ability to do analogies).

The answer if often the situation on the ground: as late at Acts 26, Judaism is still described as 'worshipping night and day' to see the fulfillment of its hopes happen, which Paul is trying to tell them is the resurrection of Christ.

So your question is actually: why do people keep believing an obsolete message when the Gospel is around?
Click to expand...

Ready to vanish=vanished?

:idunno:
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The exact year doesn't matter. It was declared desolate, and the new covenant was enacted.
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The following passage speaks of when the New Covenant will be enacted:


"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that.

So these verses prove that sometime in the FUTURE all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be saved.

Therefore, you are confused when you say that covenant has already been enacted.
 
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