ECT The NT theology core

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jamie

jamie

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The Venerable Bede: Ecclesiastical History of the English Nation Book 3: Chapter 29

Bede is a Catholic saint.

"Even on the day of his death (the vigil of the Ascension, 735) the saint was still busy dictating a translation of the Gospel of St. John."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02384a.htm
 
N

northwye

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When Christians warn about an apostasy, as believing in false doctrines, has happened to the ekklesia in the 19th to 21st centuries, it helps greatly to be able to point to Bible prophecies about such an apostasy happening. Could it be that one part of the ekklesia, a much less numerous part, but more scholarly, is now saying that the prophecies of an apostasy in Matthew 24: 4-14, plus II Thessalonians 2: 3-12, Luke 13: 20-21, I Timothy 4: 1-2, II Timothy 3: 1-8,II Timothy 4: 3-4, II Peter 2: 1-3 and II Peter 3: 3-4, were all fulfilled in the First Century and do not apply to today.

And a second part of the ekklesia, more numerous, is saying that all these prophecies of an apostasy are for a future time when the one man anti-Christ comes and do not apply to today..

Is not this a kind of defense against and a denial that the ekklesia - the congregations - is now in an apostasy?

The remnant does not necessarily call the ekklesia, the members of the congregations, the Body of Christ, though a few in it may be of the elect.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Interplanner said:
The doctrine Paul got was not brand new; it was in the scriptures. It was hid to Judaism, but in Christ it was opened up. Probably the best example is Romans with its 72 quotes (there are even more allusions). The two groups of 4 in chs 9 and 15 are the ones that show how much has shifted in his mind compared to the Judaism he grew up in.

Anyone seeking to chat rather than post here is welcome to write me at interplanner122@gmail.com.
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Made up.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Ezekiel 36
36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.


Ezekiel 37
37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.



Believe the Bible, folks.
 
D

Danoh

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jamie said:
Then they weren't new were they?

The Hebrew Bible had been around for several years before Paul.

Just because Christ had to explain the scriptures to Paul doesn't mean no one understood it.
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I'm sure that make sense to you - from within YOUR context.
 
D

Danoh

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Interplanner said:
But he always said it was embedded in the scriptures now seen in Christ. 2 cor 5:16 ; rom 16:26. it was in relation to what 1st century post-exile Judaism thought, which he grew up in.

hence the conflict when he preached. and when he explained things like Gal 3:17 in which Judaism had replaced the Promise with the Law. The RT problem.
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Ironically, some who are at odds with you on here, IP, hold a position on that Romans 16 and 2 Corinthians 5 passage, somewhat similar to your own.

I don't. Steko does not. DanP does not.

And then there are those on here opposed to your view who nevertheless can't even see their own contradiction of those two passages.

Nevertheless, Rom. 5:8
 
D

Danoh

New member
patrick jane said:
The only commentaries I read are in the Bible, try it sometime. Face it, you've tried your best but you can't put a chink in the armor of D'ism, the armor of God. You toss and turn every night because you can't grasp the truth. You know you're wrong and are too stubborn to accept it.
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Nope - you recently posted you get much from Matthew McGee.

Nevertheless, Romans 5:8
 
D

Danoh

New member
jamie said:
That's correct, my context is the scriptural context.
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Like I said - YOUR context.

As usual, you have merely asserted a thing is so because you assert it is.

You have proven nothing other than that you read your OWN context into one thing or another.

Nevertheless, Rom. 5:8
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
northwye said:
When Christians warn about an apostasy, as believing in false doctrines, has happened to the ekklesia in the 19th to 21st centuries, it helps greatly to be able to point to Bible prophecies about such an apostasy happening. Could it be that one part of the ekklesia, a much less numerous part, but more scholarly, is now saying that the prophecies of an apostasy in Matthew 24: 4-14, plus II Thessalonians 2: 3-12, Luke 13: 20-21, I Timothy 4: 1-2, II Timothy 3: 1-8,II Timothy 4: 3-4, II Peter 2: 1-3 and II Peter 3: 3-4, were all fulfilled in the First Century and do not apply to today.

And a second part of the ekklesia, more numerous, is saying that all these prophecies of an apostasy are for a future time when the one man anti-Christ comes and do not apply to today..

Is not this a kind of defense against and a denial that the ekklesia - the congregations - is now in an apostasy?

The remnant does not necessarily call the ekklesia, the members of the congregations, the Body of Christ, though a few in it may be of the elect.
Click to expand...




"It helps greatly to point out Bible prophecies that say it would happen."

I don't know about that. That's the same futurist argument. No matter what view or translation or time frame since the Gospel, the problem is when the apostle's teaching is disgraced. I believe almost everything chronological is up in the air once we past 72AD and we have. All we know is that we are to continue in the core teaching of the apostles, which I've tried to outline here.
 
N

northwye

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The preterists and the historicists are part of the ekklesia who the remnant says are in apostasy and have been in apostasy since sometime in the 19th century.

Mary Baker Eddy (1821-1910), Ellen G. White (1827-1915), Edward Irving (1792 –1834), John Darby (1800 -1882), Charles T. Russell (1852-1916),
and and C.I. Scofield (1843 -1921) were some of the major false
prophets of the 19th century who influenced Christians. The most
influential 19th century false doctrines, or cults, were the Jehovah's
Witnesses, the Mormons, Christian Science and Dispensationalism.. Dispensationalism became the most popular cult and took over, by the mid 20th century, the majority of protestant denominations.

Walter Martin in The Kingdom of the Cults, defines a cult as "any
religious group which differs significantly in some one or more
respects as to belief or practice from those religious groups which
are regarded as the normative expressions of religion in our total
culture. This is from:
http://www.internetarchaeology.org/w...ons/intro.html

There is a problem with defining a Christian cult, or a false
doctrine, in terms of how much it differs from "normative expressions
of religion in our total culture" and/or how much it is different from
what was believed in the majority of denominations before the theology
became popular. This is because if the false doctrine or cult becomes
so popular that it takes over the majority of Christian denominations
and churches, then for those in the theology and others, it is no
longer false but "truth." The theology or cult becomes the authority
for the broad way of the majority of Christians. The theology replaces
scripture as authority.

A false doctrine or false prophet has to be defined as promoting a clear departure from scripture.

There was a beginning of apostasy in the ekklesia in the 19th century. To say that apostasy did not exist because the writers of the New Testament are thought to have limited the time for the fulfillment of their prophecy to the First Century is false.

Who says their prophecies about apostasy were to be fulfilled only in the First Century? The Catholic apostasy did not occur until after the time of Origen, 185–254 AD and Augustine, 354-430 AD.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
northwye said:
The preterists and the historicists are part of the ekklesia who the remnant says are in apostasy and have been in apostasy since sometime in the 19th century.

Mary Baker Eddy (1821-1910), Ellen G. White (1827-1915), Edward Irving (1792 –1834), John Darby (1800 -1882), Charles T. Russell (1852-1916),
and and C.I. Scofield (1843 -1921) were some of the major false
prophets of the 19th century who influenced Christians. The most
influential 19th century false doctrines, or cults, were the Jehovah's
Witnesses, the Mormons, Christian Science and Dispensationalism.. Dispensationalism became the most popular cult and took over, by the mid 20th century, the majority of protestant denominations.

Walter Martin in The Kingdom of the Cults, defines a cult as "any
religious group which differs significantly in some one or more
respects as to belief or practice from those religious groups which
are regarded as the normative expressions of religion in our total
culture. This is from:
http://www.internetarchaeology.org/w...ons/intro.html

There is a problem with defining a Christian cult, or a false
doctrine, in terms of how much it differs from "normative expressions
of religion in our total culture" and/or how much it is different from
what was believed in the majority of denominations before the theology
became popular. This is because if the false doctrine or cult becomes
so popular that it takes over the majority of Christian denominations
and churches, then for those in the theology and others, it is no
longer false but "truth." The theology or cult becomes the authority
for the broad way of the majority of Christians. The theology replaces
scripture as authority.

A false doctrine or false prophet has to be defined as promoting a clear departure from scripture.

There was a beginning of apostasy in the ekklesia in the 19th century. To say that apostasy did not exist because the writers of the New Testament are thought to have limited the time for the fulfillment of their prophecy to the First Century is false.

Who says their prophecies about apostasy were to be fulfilled only in the First Century? The Catholic apostasy did not occur until after the time of Origen, 185–254 AD and Augustine, 354-430 AD.
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I don't mean to limit the outline of their doctrinal truth (these 4 core points) to the 1st century, but I know the material of Mt24A (up to v29) was about that generation.

The point of apostasy is not whether it was predicted but just that it exists; that it is such a departure from the glory of the Gospel.
 
steko

steko

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LIFETIME MEMBER
northwye said:
The preterists and the historicists are part of the ekklesia who the remnant says are in apostasy and have been in apostasy since sometime in the 19th century.

.
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Who is this 'remnant' that you frequently refer to?

Is that some kind of new magisterium?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
steko said:
Who is this 'remnant' that you frequently refer to?

Is that some kind of new magisterium?
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If I may: it is the authentic church/believers. The departed apostasy is what he means was predicted, and it is majority. He is saying the majority dispensational church is departed from the apostles doctrine.
 
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