Nanja
Well-known member
Well said my Brother !
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Well said my Brother !
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen ! It's blasphemy against the Efficacy / Power of Christ's Blood to not Save to the uttermost, the Particular World of sinners He came into the world to Save John 1:29; John 10:11; Heb. 13:20.
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I said
What in the world are you talking about?? That is a revelation I received from Jesus.
beloved57
Well-known member
A scripture that testifies to the fact that Christs death was only for some and not all without exception, is found in Isa 53:8
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
It His death was for the sin of Gods People, or His Sheep, He was punished for them !
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
It His death was for the sin of Gods People, or His Sheep, He was punished for them !
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Nanja
Well-known member
Amen ! God's People Is. 53:8, or the Seed given to Christ John 10:29; His Sheep He gave His Life for John 10:11; or was delivered up for, were Chosen in union with Him of the Father to have forgiveness / remission of sins and an Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:4-11, which is comprised exclusively of an Eternally Forgiven World 2 Cor. 5:19, God's Elect.
Rom. 8:32-33
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
And the Same Ones are God's Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23; Christ's Promised Seed.
Is 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen for sure !
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ didnt die for everyone without exception just as He didnt pray for everyone without exception in His Classic intercessory prayer as He anticipated His Death Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
beloved57
Well-known member
Jn 17:9 is also a picture of who Christ does make intercession for in heaven, not the whole world without exception, but for His Elect whom He died for Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
I hope you can see the correspondence here. Jn 17:9 is Christ interceding and He specifies who He is doing it for, not all without exception, but them whom the Father has given Him. Those given Him corresponds to the elect in Rom 8:33 ; Now those in Jn 17:9 who were given to Christ, also He died for Jn 17:19
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Which corresponds to the fact He died for His Elect indicated in Rom 8:33 in Vs 34
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
And so the whole Scope of His Intercession was for them He died for, believers and those who shall be believers Jn 17:20
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
And so it is these, the given, the elect He maketh inrercession for in Heaven Rom 8:34
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
So Christ died only for them He made or makes Intercession for ! Which isnt all without exception, but His Elect given to Him by the Father !
Heb 7:25 complements
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
The ones the Father gave Him !
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
I hope you can see the correspondence here. Jn 17:9 is Christ interceding and He specifies who He is doing it for, not all without exception, but them whom the Father has given Him. Those given Him corresponds to the elect in Rom 8:33 ; Now those in Jn 17:9 who were given to Christ, also He died for Jn 17:19
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Which corresponds to the fact He died for His Elect indicated in Rom 8:33 in Vs 34
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
And so the whole Scope of His Intercession was for them He died for, believers and those who shall be believers Jn 17:20
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
And so it is these, the given, the elect He maketh inrercession for in Heaven Rom 8:34
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
So Christ died only for them He made or makes Intercession for ! Which isnt all without exception, but His Elect given to Him by the Father !
Heb 7:25 complements
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
The ones the Father gave Him !
And in John 19:30 it says IT IS FINISHED / TELEO which is in the PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , and in the INDICATIVE MOOD .
#1 The INDICATIVE MOOD means that John 19:30 is a FACT , that It is finished .
#2 , The PASSIVE VOICE means that God died for sin and that means all SIN .
# 3 The PERFECT TENSE means that God died for all sin from Adam to when creation stops or ELSE the Perfect tense MEANS NOTHING as God could only die ONCE , ONLY ONCE .
dan p
This topic actually about the myth: all == some. In the previous logic statement from computer scripting languages the variables all and some are forced to mean the same thing by the == is equal sign. Of course we know that is a complete fiction if we look at any dictionary. But this is the reasoning of the Calvinists.
We know that all != (does not equal) some.
We know that all != (does not equal) some.
beloved57
Well-known member
Posts 1328 and 1329 did you understand them ?
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ only died for them that are the called !
Heb 9:15
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death[on the cross], for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are [The] called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance
In the original its the called with the definite article, its therefore denoting a special group of people that are the called. The call is to the heirs of the inheritance, the eternal inheritance.
They are heirs of God, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ Rom 8:17
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
They are the heirs of salvation Heb 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
And this call isn't merely an outward external call, but an inward internal call made effectual by the Spirit of God.
Heb 9:15
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death[on the cross], for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are [The] called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance
In the original its the called with the definite article, its therefore denoting a special group of people that are the called. The call is to the heirs of the inheritance, the eternal inheritance.
They are heirs of God, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ Rom 8:17
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
They are the heirs of salvation Heb 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
And this call isn't merely an outward external call, but an inward internal call made effectual by the Spirit of God.
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen Brother, those who are The Called of God, Abraham's Spiritual Seed, the Seed of Christ Gal.3:29, and heirs of God [whether jew or gentile], shall also receive an Inward Call, the Promise of the Spirit given them in New Birth:
Is. 44:3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ didn't die for all without exception, its a serious mistake to say so, but He died for all whom He redeems from iniquity Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
And this will be preached by faithful ministers of the Gospel Titus 2:15
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
He died for them that His death purifies unto Himself them, Vs 14
There's no such thing as Christ giving Himself for a person and it doesnt result in that person being purified unto Himself for His use and service !
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
And this will be preached by faithful ministers of the Gospel Titus 2:15
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
He died for them that His death purifies unto Himself them, Vs 14
There's no such thing as Christ giving Himself for a person and it doesnt result in that person being purified unto Himself for His use and service !
Christ died for the ungodly, Romans 5:6.
Last I checked, that was all humans prior to their salvation.
Christ died for all. But salvation is not automatically applied to all. It is only applied to those who are "in Him."
Yes, as I said, Salvation is only applied to those "in Him." Paul uses "us," because he's speaking as one who is "in Him."
Yeah, those who are "in Him" are purified by His death.
Not "them who are not 'in Him'."
It's not talking about individuals in the group. It's talking about the group itself.
Because you say so?
beloved57
Well-known member
The elect are ungodly !
So are the unelect.
beloved57
Well-known member
True, but Christ died for only the elect. So to say He died for the ungodly, that takes nothing away from the fact that He died only for the elect since they are naturally ungodly sinners !
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ didn't die to save or redeem all people, but He died to redeem and actually save a chosen people. The Fathers Election and the Sons Redemptive death and Spirits application are of the same proportion Lets look at 1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
All Three are here present in the Salvation Work, the Election of the Father, the Blood of the Son, and the Application of the Spirit.
Note: The Sprinkling of Blood is obviously to be done because its was shed, for it to be applied !
He was to die, and give eternal life, only to as many as the Father gave Him Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
The Fathers Election, the Sons Redemption, and the Spirits application are discerned here.
Heres how. The Elect are the ones the Father gives to Christ, of course He is to die for them, and to them He gives Eternal life, which is accomplished by the Spirits application of spiritual life, out of Christs death.
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
All Three are here present in the Salvation Work, the Election of the Father, the Blood of the Son, and the Application of the Spirit.
Note: The Sprinkling of Blood is obviously to be done because its was shed, for it to be applied !
He was to die, and give eternal life, only to as many as the Father gave Him Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
The Fathers Election, the Sons Redemption, and the Spirits application are discerned here.
Heres how. The Elect are the ones the Father gives to Christ, of course He is to die for them, and to them He gives Eternal life, which is accomplished by the Spirits application of spiritual life, out of Christs death.