Christian Liberty
Well-known member
I'm just curious what he did, considering he's actually preaching the atonement. I guess they don't like that here?
I'm just curious what he did, considering he's actually preaching the atonement. I guess they don't like that here?
But it never not even one time means only the elect. I challenge any Calvinist to prove that it is.
His hyper-Calvinism gets the neg reps. He attributes evil to God and makes God vs man responsible for going to hell (his version of God delights in arbitrarily sending people to hell by decree before they exist for His glory...His God delights in frying people without hope, unlike the biblical portrayal of God).
Why in the world do you have so much neg rep?
God does not arbitraarily send the non elect to hell...
It means only the elect here Jn 3:16, 2 Cor 5:19, Jn 3:17;Jn 4:42; 1 Jn 4:14. Now I challenge you that in these places world does not mean The Elect only !
John 3:16 is easy, all we have to do is look at verse 19 which is the same word Kosmos -
'And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.'
This is not the elect, unless the elect are evil and love darkness.
John 4:42 'And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.'
The people who said this were Samaritans and in their thinking the elect could only mean the Jews so for them to use the word 'Kosmos' it had to mean more than just the elect. Seeing the Samaritans were a despised race to the Jews.
John uses the word Kosmos about a hundred times and every instance falls into one of two categories where it means either the whole world with everything in it or the negative sense where it means the evil of the world with everyone in it.
I am not going to go thru every verse because it would be a waste of time on you and because you have not refuted anything just given your own private interpretation.
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God does not arbitraarily send the non elect to hell, but He sends them there for their sins, and yes He purposed to do that to them ! He made them vessels of wrath and then fitted them for there eternal destruction.
Both Jn 3:16 and John 4:42 mean the world of the elect. Were does it say it does not mean that ? Where is your proof ?
The word and context show that it means unregenerate men. You and Calvin are wrong to insert elect to retain a wrong view (I Tim. 2:4 all men...adding all kinds of men is eisegesis, not exegesis).
All men there means the Elect. Whenever the word world, all or every are used in reference to Salvation issues, like redemption ect, its always all the Elect meant. I have given evidence of that in many of my threads and posts.
If it meant Christ died for all men, that would logically lead to either all men being saved, or God being an unjust God who will punish the same sins twice. Neither of which lines up very well with what the Bible teaches about God.
The objective provision is sufficient for and intended for all. It is not subjectively appropriated by everyone. It is efficacious for those who believe. All are invited to believe.
Unlimited atonement only leads to universalism if there are no conditions to receiving it (repentant faith; receive vs reject Christ).
It does not mean God punishes the same sins twice. If the remedy is rejected (once for all death), then people die in their sins. If it is received, then their sins are dealt with.
Limited atonement means that God's love is limited,
the cross is of limited power,
there is no human responsibility in two-party reconciliation,
the saving and damning of people is arbitrary vs just, etc.
The objective provision is sufficient for and intended for all. It is not subjectively appropriated by everyone. It is efficacious for those who believe. All are invited to believe.
Unlimited atonement only leads to universalism if there are no conditions to receiving it (repentant faith; receive vs reject Christ).
It does not mean God punishes the same sins twice. If the remedy is rejected (once for all death), then people die in their sins. If it is received, then their sins are dealt with.
Limited atonement means that God's love is limited, the cross is of limited power, there is no human responsibility in two-party reconciliation, the saving and damning of people is arbitrary vs just, etc.
Another problem is that the atonement is not a literal payment/commercial transaction (if it was, then universalism would be true). Payment is one of many metaphors conveying spiritual truth about His death/provision, etc. (vs wooden literalism).