ECT The Most Misunderstood Passage in the Bible--Romans 5:12-18

[Jerry Shugart]

Say it one more time, Jerry!

It will still not be true.

For some reason you just cannot understand that before "all men" can die spiritually those same men must be alive spiritually.

In your mind a person who is already dead spiritually can die spiritually when he sins. And the sad thing about it is the fact that you think that makes perfect sense!

I hope they treat you well in your padded cell!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That can mean that within the vacuum you are looking at this from.

But being Greeking the text often appears to be your preferred route - have you considered "Greeking" words like "many" there, in Romans 5 - as to the various aspects of the grammar: case, tense, mood, and so on?

You ramble on and on but you say nothing. Are you trying to prove that "all men" means just "some men"?

 

[Nang]

Oh, so Adam was a more effective Federal Head than Christ was? Adam made everyone a sinner and Christ only provides everlasting life to those who believe. That's lame.

Your responses are heretical and lame.

Not Christ-like or Christ-exalting, at all.

 

[Danoh]

For some reason you just cannot understand that before "all men" can die spiritually those same men must be alive spiritually.

In your mind a person who is already dead spiritually can die spiritually when he sins. And the sad thing about it is the fact that you think that makes perfect sense!

I hope they treat you well in your padded cell!

Must be why Paul talks about the need to die daily.

And about being crucified and yet alive.

And how that...oh never mind, lol

 

[Jerry Shugart]

John W

I asked you to "quote" anyone in the MAD camp wjho says we do not have to obey God. do you know what the word "quote" means?

Does your mommie know that you are playing with her computer?

 

[Nang]

For some reason you just cannot understand that before "all men" can die spiritually those same men must be alive spiritually.

Oh I have a reason . . . It is not Truth.

It is not even logical.

 

[Danoh]

I asked you to "quote" anyone in the MAD camp wjho says we do not have to obey God. do you know what the word "quote" means?

Does your mommie know that you are playing with her computer?

Behaving as ugly as some do towards any one who does not agree with one is as much denial of the need to obey Christ as actually asserting one does not need to.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Behaving as ugly as some do towards any one who does not agree with one is as much denial of the need to obey Christ as actually asserting one does not need to.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Why shouldn't I behave badly toward someone who insults my intelligence with her insane babblings?

Or perhaps you want to defend her idea that denies the fact that a person must first be alive spiritually before he can die spiritually?

Or perhaps you want to argue that the words "all men" only means "some men"?

I am glad to see that you have joined the politically correct police force!

 

[glorydaz]

Why shouldn't I behave badly toward someone who insults my intelligence with her insane babblings?

Or perhaps you want to defend her idea that denies the fact that a person must first be alive spiritually before he can die spiritually?

Or perhaps you want to argue that the words "all men" only means "some men"?

I am glad to see that you have joined the politically correct police force!

Don't take it personally, Jerry. Danoh is actually speaking to those of us who have dared call him out on his hypocrisy. He's passive aggressive, and you are the one he's chosen to use at the moment. He's don't the same with others...lecturing through an innocent party is now his M.O. It's silly, but I'm afraid we haven't seen the last of it, yet.

 

[glorydaz]

John W

John W

Clearly you have no more understanding of John W than you do the topic at hand. :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

John W

Oh I have a reason . . . It is not Truth.

It is not even logical.

Of course not...life never comes before death. How "logical" is that? :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

That can mean that within the vacuum you are looking at this from.

But being Greeking the text often appears to be your preferred route - have you considered "Greeking" words like "many" there, in Romans 5 - as to the various aspects of the grammar: case, tense, mood, and so on?

:rotfl:

 

[glorydaz]

Your responses are heretical and lame.

Not Christ-like or Christ-exalting, at all.

Well, attacking me sure makes it easy to ignore what I've said. :thumb:

So far, all you've got is what you've been fed, and nothing to support it. You can't even respond to the verses I've shown you.

 

[glorydaz]

Must be why Paul talks about the need to die daily.

And about being crucified and yet alive.

And how that...oh never mind, lol

I need to drag up that little hissy fit you threw the other day. :dizzy:

Then people could see what a hypocrite you are.

 

[glorydaz]

I asked you to "quote" anyone in the MAD camp wjho says we do not have to obey God. do you know what the word "quote" means?

Does your mommie know that you are playing with her computer?

She probably got permission from the federal head of her house.

 

[musterion]

You send me to hell quite often in your supposed "love".

You do it yourself with your false gospel of persevering in your own legalistic works "or else." We love you enough to tell you you aren't believing what Paul said.

 

[musterion]

The lost have no spiritual EMPOWERMENT.

Their body houses a "body of this death" that resides IN them - "NO - GOOD THING IN" them.

None.

And yet they're full able to hear and believe the Gospel and be saved, if they choose to do so. We know this because God will condemn them if they won't; they ALREADY stand condemned, in fact.

 

[Tambora]

YOU are ignoring that AFTER Adam disobeyed God something changed immediately. Before the disobedience neither Adam nor Eve knew they were naked, and immediately after Adam disobeyed God they both KNEW and were ashamed of their nakedness.

Duh. I'm the one that brought up Adam's nakedness.
Scripture tells us of those changes that happened.
And none of those changes that scripture tells us about says anything about being spiritually alive or dead.

lol, you believe God created man spiritually dead.

I have not claimed that Adam was created spiritually dead.
You do the same with me that you do with scripture ---- read something into it that is not there.

There was an immediate change in Adam and Eve then the curses from God followed. Figure it out. Have you ever read Genesis 3 ?

I've read it all.
We can even list the changes that were said to occur.
But not one of those changes says whether Adam was spiritually alive or dead.

Got ya, God took the skins of animals and clothed Adam and Eve and the animals whose skins were used to clothe them was not affected ?

Scripture makes no mention of any blood in the story of GOD covering Adam and Eve with skins.
Nor does scripture say it was the skins of animals killed.
We don't know how the skins were aquired, only that GOD provided them.
Does scripture say Adam and Eve were forgiven when GOD covered them with skins?
Does scripture say Adam and Eve were spiritually alive or dead after being covered?

You have mentioned there being a correlation between these skins given to Adam and Eve and the scripture that says without the shedding of blood there can be no forgiveness.
Let's go with that thought for a moment.
If animals were killed as blood sacrifices to cover Adam and Eve's sin, then Adam and Ever would not be 'spiritually dead' if they were forgiven.
That's gonna blow a hole in your theory that Adam and Eve were spiritually dead when they had children, and thus passed on their spiritual deadness to their offspring.
Adam and Eve would have passed on a forgiven living nature to their children, not a spiritually dead unforgiven nature.

 

[Tambora]

Danoh

lecturing

I'm afraid we haven't seen the last of it, yet.

It's a recurring pattern of his.

 

[dodge]

Tambora;4982951]Duh. I'm the one that brought up Adam's nakedness.
Scripture tells us of those changes that happened.
And none of those changes that scripture tells us about says anything about being spiritually alive or dead.

OK you believe God created Adam spiritually dead ? That is where that kind of nonsense leads.

I have not claimed that Adam was created spiritually dead.
You do the same with me that you do with scripture ---- read something into it that is not there.

Wrong again ! You IGNORE the obvious.

I've read it all.
We can even list the changes that were said to occur.
But not one of those changes says whether Adam was spiritually alive or dead.

Again: You believe God created Adam and Eve spiritually dead. Do you have scripture to support that assumption ?

Scripture makes no mention of any blood in the story of GOD covering Adam and Eve with skins.
Nor does scripture say it was the skins of animals killed.
We don't know how the skins were aquired, only that GOD provided them.
Does scripture say Adam and Eve were forgiven when GOD covered them with skins?
Does scripture say Adam and Eve were spiritually alive or dead after being covered?

If you take an animals skin from them they bleed and die biology 101.

If you read on a little farther you see where in the process of time Cain and Able brought an offering to God. SCRIPTURE does not say ONE word about sacrifices before that and YET Cain and Abel brought sacrifices to
God.Obviously God had set the precedent and taught Adam, Eve, Cain, and Able the importance of shedding blood for the remission of sin.
Follow along now and you may become UN-confused.

Cain brought a "bloodless" sacrifice and God rejected Cain's offering.

Able brought a prepared lamb and God accepted Able's offering because blood had been shed, and without the shedding of blood their is no remission of sin.

The two "types" of folks trying where one type tries appease God with their own work and the other type are those who trust and depend on God's sacrifice.

You have mentioned there being a correlation between these skins given to Adam and Eve and the scripture that says without the shedding of blood there can be no forgiveness.
Let's go with that thought for a moment.

If animals were killed as blood sacrifices to cover Adam and Eve's sin, then Adam and Ever would not be 'spiritually dead' if they were forgiven.

BINGO ! They were brought back from spiritual death by an act of God who covered them with skins of animals.

That's gonna blow a hole in your theory that Adam and Eve were spiritually dead when they had children, and thus passed on their spiritual deadness to their offspring.
Adam and Eve would have passed on a forgiven living nature to their children, not a spiritually dead unforgiven nature.

Really ! So you believe when a born again couple have a child that the child receives their being born again from their parents and themselves are born again based on what their parents did ? Can you please provide the scripture that supports that.