ECT The manner of Jesus' second coming.

ThreeAngels

New member
Jesus described His second advent to be after this manner, "...as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" - Matthew 24:27
The second coming of Jesus will be universally witnessed. The devil will try to counterfeit the Messiah's second advent by making appearances in various locations in a form which will match the description of Jesus given in the Revelation. However, he is not allowed to counterfeit the manner of the Savior's coming. Besides, Satan will give teachings which are contrary to Scripture. In his pretended form of Messiah, Satan will declare that he has changed the Sabbath to the first day of the week. This is described in Scripture as 'strong delusion' see 2Thessalonians 2:11. Jesus has given a description of His own second advent to safeguard us against deception. Those who fall for the devil's counterfeit will be damned, see 2Thess 2:12.
 
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Interplanner

Well-known member
Jesus described His second advent to be after this manner, "...as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" - Matthew 24:27
The second coming of Jesus will be universally witnessed. The devil will try to counterfeit the Messiah's second advent by making appearances in various locations but he is not allowed to counterfeit the manner of the Savior's coming. This is described in Scripture as a 'strong delusion' see 2Thessalonians 2:11. Jesus has given a description of His own second advent to safeguard us against deception. Those who fall for the devil's counterfeit will be damned, see 2Thess 2:12.



The Thess material was about the 1st century situation because Paul was quite sure the 2nd coming was soon to take place, immediately after the mess in Jerusalem. He (alone) does not seem to allow for any delay like the others. It's one of the things that Peter says is 'hard to understand' about his letters.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
The Thess material was about the 1st century situation because Paul was quite sure the 2nd coming was soon to take place, immediately after the mess in Jerusalem. He (alone) does not seem to allow for any delay like the others. It's one of the things that Peter says is 'hard to understand' about his letters.

:chuckle:

Rationalization.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The Thess material was about the 1st century situation because Paul was quite sure the 2nd coming was soon to take place, immediately after the mess in Jerusalem.

He thought that the catching up of the saints could happen any moment, not the return of Christ to the earth.

Paul knew that before the Lord returned to the earth then certain things must first take place, like the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place (Mt.24:15).
 

Danoh

New member
The Thess material was about the 1st century situation because Paul was quite sure the 2nd coming was soon to take place, immediately after the mess in Jerusalem. He (alone) does not seem to allow for any delay like the others. It's one of the things that Peter says is 'hard to understand' about his letters.

Nonsense - Peter is clearly asserting that those Israelites for whom Paul's assertions about God's delaying of His pending wrath in His longsuffering prior to His fulfilling of His Promise unto Israel is hard for said Israelites reading of it to understand, thus their twisting both Peter's and Paul's writings about said delay, as their Israelite forefathers before them did with the writings of Israel's Prophets concerning God's prior, delayed Promises unto Israel.

He was referring to the gainsaying Isralites he began the chapter with.

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
 

ThreeAngels

New member
The Thess material was about the 1st century situation because Paul was quite sure the 2nd coming was soon to take place
Paul warned the Thessalonian believers against believing that Jesus was soon to return. He said to them: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [the return of Jesus] shall not come, except there come a falling away first [the great apostasy which resulted in the formation of the Catholic church], and that man of sin [the papacy] be revealed, the son of perdition - 2Thess 2:3.
 

ThreeAngels

New member
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first [the great apostasy which resulted in the formation of the Catholic church], and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition - 2Thessalonians 2:3.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first [the great apostasy which resulted in the formation of the Catholic church], and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition - 2Thessalonians 2:3.



The Thess letters were early. They were speaking of what would happen shortly in Judea, I Th 2:16. Paul never indicates that the 2nd coming would be in the distant future; it was to take place right after the destruction of Israel. He does not allow for a delay between the DoJ and the 2nd coming as does Peter, Mark, Matthew.

The person referred to was the person who lead the 'rebellion that desolates' of Dan 8 which is then called the 'abomination that desolates' in ch 9, which could then be either the person or the movement. And which has a timestamp because of the 490 years limit.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
The Thess letters were early. They were speaking of what would happen shortly in Judea, I Th 2:16. Paul never indicates that the 2nd coming would be in the distant future; it was to take place right after the destruction of Israel. He does not allow for a delay between the DoJ and the 2nd coming as does Peter, Mark, Matthew.

The person referred to was the person who lead the 'rebellion that desolates' of Dan 8 which is then called the 'abomination that desolates' in ch 9, which could then be either the person or the movement. And which has a timestamp because of the 490 years limit.

:chuckle:
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
The person referred to was the person who lead the 'rebellion that desolates' of Dan 8 which is then called the 'abomination that desolates' in ch 9, which could then be either the person or the movement. And which has a timestamp because of the 490 years limit.

The abomination of desolation is after the destruction of the city and the sanctuary...IF we are going to believe Daniel.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
It's one of the things that Peter says is 'hard to understand' about his letters.

2 Peter 3
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


These are the things Peter is referring to, not end times things.
 

Danoh

New member
2 Peter 3
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


These are the things Peter is referring to, not end times things.

Sort of...

Peter is not referring to his own and or his fellow Israelite reader's salvation there as some future hope.

Paul uses that same kind of language when referring to the need to give a witness that is without spot in the midst of one temptation or another.

All Peter is asserting there is why the Lord's wrath PRIOR TO His return to RESTORE Israel has been delayed; as Paul in his writings has also asserted.
 

serpentdove

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Banned
[2 Thess 2:12]

When we are out of here the world will get really bad. :rapture:

"The day of the Lord and the unsaved (2:10–12): God will allow the unsaved to be totally deceived by the Antichrist for their sin of rejecting the truth." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (2 Th 2:5–12). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.
 

serpentdove

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Banned
He thought that the catching up of the saints could happen any moment, not the return of Christ to the earth.

Paul knew that before the Lord returned to the earth then certain things must first take place, like the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place (Mt.24:15).
Christ's return is imminent. We are in the third watch, days of Noah, etc.
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Rondonmonson

New member
Jesus described His second advent to be after this manner, "...as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" - Matthew 24:27
The second coming of Jesus will be universally witnessed. The devil will try to counterfeit the Messiah's second advent by making appearances in various locations but he is not allowed to counterfeit the manner of the Savior's coming. This is described in Scripture as a 'strong delusion' see 2Thessalonians 2:11. Jesus has given a description of His own second advent to safeguard us against deception. Those who fall for the devil's counterfeit will be damned, see 2Thess 2:12.

Jesus came to the Lost sheep of Israel, only. Jesus had a duty to foretell to both the Messianic Jews and those Jews who would not believe, what their plight would be. Thus Jesus tells those that missed the Rapture, but imho, no doubt come to the Lord Jesus before the Abomination of Desolation happens, thus they heed Jesus' words to FLEE Judea. Jesus then warns them about a time of trouble like never before, (1260 days they are protected see Rev. 12). Jesus then warns them about Fake Christs/Messiahs and False Prophets, BUT WHY ?? Because of course thy want to trick Israel to come out of their protected zone, The Beast/Anti-Christ will just kill everyone else who doesn't worship him as God, hence he needs to deceive them to draw them out. That is why Jesus warns them, and tells hem basically, DON'T FALL FOR IT, you will see me coming in the Eastern Skies, immediately after the tribulation. So Matthew 24:21-31 is Jesus telling the Jewish people who were not believers before the Rapture what to look for.

Jesus then tells the Messianic Jews what to look for in Matthew 24:32-44, he tells them about two woman being in the field one is taken and the other is left. This of course is the Rapture. Jesus covers both bases.
 
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Interplanner

Well-known member
Jesus came to the Lost sheep of Israel, only. Jesus had a duty to foretell to both the Messianic Jews and those to wold not believe, what their plight would be. Thus Jesus tells those that missed the Rapture, but imho, no doubt come to the Lord Jesus before the Abomination of Desolation happens, thus they heed Jesus' words to FLEE Judea. Jesus then warns them about a time of trouble like never before, (1260 days they are protected see Rev. 12). Jesus then warns them about Fake Christs/Messiahs and False Prophets, BUT WHY ?? Because of course thy want to trick Israel to come out of their protected zone, The Beast/Anti-Christ will just kill everyone else who doesn't worship him as God, hence he needs to deceive them to draw them out. That is why Jesus warns them, and tells hem basically, DON'T FALL FOR IT, you will see me coming in the Eastern Skies, immediately after the tribulation. So Matthew 24:21-31 is Jesus telling the Jewish people who were not believers before the Rapture what to look for.

Jesus then tells the Messianic Jews what to look for in Matthew 24:32-44, he tells them about two woman being in the field one is taken and the other is left. This of course is the Rapture. Jesus covers both bases.




None of these references hold up because they were about the trauma of the 1st century in Judea. while most of Mt 24 after v29 is about the final coming in world judgement (which appeared to be originally intended to be right after the destruction of Jerusalem), v32-44 can be applied to both. However, you failed to notice a very important thing there: "taken" is a bad thing. It is a good thing to remain! That is the parallel to the flood.

It is a huge mistake to construct a huge doctrine on one salty line to a foreign woman in one account in Matthew. The thing about 'only to Israel.' As you survey the overall picture of those years, you see that this emphasis is only to get a base of Jewish missionaries ready to launch by the time of Pentecost, so that the proclamation of Christ as reigning on his throne and of the Gospel would be catapulted forward and saturate the world. It worked. Paul said it was true, twice.
 
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