The Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent Me - Isaiah 48:16 - 1+1+1
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Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
>> Who are the three divine personalities Isaiah 48:11-18 (Yeshaiah Hanavi) speaks about? "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. (Only God is eternal.) My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens (the Creator is speaking)-, . . . And now the Sovereign Lord (one divine
personality) has sent me (the speaker is eternal and the Creator, and therefore a second divine personality), with his Spirit (a third divine personality).
## The writer here conveniently leaves out the key passage that explains this verse, he gives there '……'
Here is the whole passage: "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens,Assemble all of you and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD (in the Hebrew Y-H-W-H) loves him, he shall perform his purpose on Babylon, and His arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I have spoken and called him, I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way. Draw near to me, hear this; from the beginning I have not spoken in secret from the time it came o be I have been there. And now my lord (adoni) LORD (Y-H-W-H) has sent me with his Spirit. Thus says the LORD (Y-H-W-H) your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, …
Here is my comment:
"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens, [this is God speaking] Assemble all of you and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD (in the Hebrew Y-H-W-H) loves him, he [here is the part left out by the other guy. Here is spoken ABOUT God, in the third person, that means that here already is not God speaking, but somebody else (Isaiah) ABOUT God] shall perform his purpose on Babylon, and His [again third person] arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I have spoken and called him, I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way. Draw near to me, [also this is Isaiah speaking; a fysical human being can not draw near to God] hear this; from the beginning I have not spoken in secret from the time it came to be [this speaks about the decree against Sancherib] I have been there. And now my lord (adoni) LORD (Y-H-W-H) has sent me [the me is Isaiah] with his Spirit. [the spirit of God is the power of God, that makes Isaiah a prophet. It is not a separate God] Thus says the LORD (Y-H-W-H) [again in the third person, not God is speaking here but Isaiah] your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, …"
"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
>> Who are the three divine personalities Isaiah 48:11-18 (Yeshaiah Hanavi) speaks about? "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. (Only God is eternal.) My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens (the Creator is speaking)-, . . . And now the Sovereign Lord (one divine
personality) has sent me (the speaker is eternal and the Creator, and therefore a second divine personality), with his Spirit (a third divine personality).
## The writer here conveniently leaves out the key passage that explains this verse, he gives there '……'
Here is the whole passage: "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens,Assemble all of you and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD (in the Hebrew Y-H-W-H) loves him, he shall perform his purpose on Babylon, and His arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I have spoken and called him, I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way. Draw near to me, hear this; from the beginning I have not spoken in secret from the time it came o be I have been there. And now my lord (adoni) LORD (Y-H-W-H) has sent me with his Spirit. Thus says the LORD (Y-H-W-H) your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, …
Here is my comment:
"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens, [this is God speaking] Assemble all of you and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD (in the Hebrew Y-H-W-H) loves him, he [here is the part left out by the other guy. Here is spoken ABOUT God, in the third person, that means that here already is not God speaking, but somebody else (Isaiah) ABOUT God] shall perform his purpose on Babylon, and His [again third person] arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I have spoken and called him, I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way. Draw near to me, [also this is Isaiah speaking; a fysical human being can not draw near to God] hear this; from the beginning I have not spoken in secret from the time it came to be [this speaks about the decree against Sancherib] I have been there. And now my lord (adoni) LORD (Y-H-W-H) has sent me [the me is Isaiah] with his Spirit. [the spirit of God is the power of God, that makes Isaiah a prophet. It is not a separate God] Thus says the LORD (Y-H-W-H) [again in the third person, not God is speaking here but Isaiah] your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, …"
"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
beameup
New member
The portion is crystal-clear. All three are presented in the verse. Concise and to the point. 1+1+1
The rabbis of old knew this quite well, that there were Two Powers in Heaven and there was ruach 'elohim.
The post-70 AD "rabbis" covered up the past and tried to bury it so they could hide their shame and keep their jobs.
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him.
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. - Daniel 7:13-14
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
And then you think that 1+1+1=1??
"And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME."
Ex 20:1+2
"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
beameup
New member
This is a key passage from which the pre-70 A.D. rabbis understood that there were
Two Powers in Heaven:
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him.
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. - Daniel 7:13-14
Two Powers in Heaven:
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him.
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. - Daniel 7:13-14
(Quote)
Thus says the LORD (Y-H-W-H) [again in the third person, not God is speaking here but Isaiah] your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, …"
Is.48:16. Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
17Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
18O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
19Thy seed also had been as the sand, and the offspring of thy bowels like the gravel thereof; his name should not have been cut off nor destroyed from before me.
20Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob.
21And they thirsted not when he led them through the deserts: he caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them: he clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out.
22There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.
1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
Looks to me Israel is doing the talking.
Peace.
beameup
New member
How many threads are you going to post about "kinsman-redeemer" גָּאַל gâʼal"?
Ga'al is used 84 times in the Old Testament, so I will be pursuing all of them. The highest form of Kinsman-Redeemer would be the God-Man redeeming his human kin. We can deduce the Second Coming is an act of kinsman-redemption, saving his brethren from extermination by Antichrist.
Rev.22:6. And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.”
7“And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”
8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me,
9but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book........ Worship God.”
Eph.4:4. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Peace.
:thumb: Good points.
It appears that we have a kinsman worshiper here in our midst: I wonder if he also worships Boaz too? And not only that but the author of Hebrews quotes from a Psalm when he writes, "For both he that sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, I will declare Thy Name unto my brethren, in the midst of the great congregation will I sing praise unto Thee", (Hebrews 2:11-12). So it appears that not only is "beameup" a kinsman worshiper, and an Angel worshiper, (against what Paul says also, as was shown to him elsewhere when he did not deny his Angel worship), but one who worships the son who is not ashamed to call those willing to become sanctified his brethren, (for we also are to become sons of Elohim in the Son of Elohim if indeed we keep his commandments, faithfulness, and love).
beameup
New member
So true ... I believe that God the WORD was God and was with God from the beginning. I believe that God reveals in Isaiah 48 that he and the Son are the ONE God.
So, you might ask where was Christ, the Word, when he was with the Father in the beginning?
Jesus us told us the answer to this question in a spoken prayer which his disciples heard:
I will be adding my interpretations within ().
John 17:4-5
I (The WORD as God the Son) have glorified thee (God the Father) on the earth.
I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
And now, O Father glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had (shared) with thee (from the beginning) before the world was.
When ancient men looked upon the image of LORD God the Father they had been given the privilege to see a representation of the invisible God dwelling within his own creation. And HIS LIVING WORD was right there sharing the glorious presence with the Father.
God is not divided into parts ... but is ONE God.
The Father MIGHT have said something like this in his day. When you have SEEN ME as the FATHER, you have seen the pre-incarnate image of ME AS THE SON. Just like Jesus said: When you have SEEM ME, you have SEEN the FATHER.
God is ONE but he introduced himself to men and angels as two in this case.
Yes ... I see the trinity at the end of verse 16.
Paraphrased:
From the beginning of time that was I (The ONE God seen as your LORD) have not spoken in secret. There AM I the eternal God, and now The LORD God (who is God appearing with his visible image and known by men as Father) and HIS (the Father's invisible) Spirit hath sent ME (The Savior)
.
Isaiah 43:11
I (the ONE God), EVEN I, am the LORD (who is God appearing in a supernatural image) and beside ME (as the invisible ONE God who is seen as The supernatural LORD) there is no Savior.
Do you see my point beameup?
beameup
New member
Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I AM HE; I am the first, I also am the last. MINE hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and MY right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things?
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YHWH hath loved HIM: HE will do HIS pleasure on Babylon, and HIS arm shall be on the Chaldeans. I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called HIM: I have brought HIM, and HE shall make his way prosperous.
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Come ye near unto ME, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there I AM: and now the 'Adonay YHWH, and his SPIRIT, hath sent ME. Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I AM the YHWH 'elohiym which teacheth thee [Israel] to profit, which leadeth thee [Israel] by the way that thou shouldest go. - Isaiah 48:12-16
Here, clearly you can see the TWO POWERS:
The ONE, 'Adonay YHWH, is in RED,
The OTHER is the doer, the "action", "creator", the "arm" of 'Adonay YHWH.
Isaiah is NOWHERE in this conversation.
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YHWH hath loved HIM: HE will do HIS pleasure on Babylon, and HIS arm shall be on the Chaldeans. I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called HIM: I have brought HIM, and HE shall make his way prosperous.
-----
Come ye near unto ME, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there I AM: and now the 'Adonay YHWH, and his SPIRIT, hath sent ME. Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I AM the YHWH 'elohiym which teacheth thee [Israel] to profit, which leadeth thee [Israel] by the way that thou shouldest go. - Isaiah 48:12-16
Here, clearly you can see the TWO POWERS:
The ONE, 'Adonay YHWH, is in RED,
The OTHER is the doer, the "action", "creator", the "arm" of 'Adonay YHWH.
Isaiah is NOWHERE in this conversation.
Yes... beameup. I like the verses you shared. I guessing you are making the case that there is not a trinity for I have not read all your posts. ... am I right or wrong?
However I do see a trinity ... while always remembering there is only ONE God. The ONE God was introduced to us in Genesis 1 as a spirit... So I believe that this is God's natural eternal state.
However, I do believe that he created one image for his personal use. We also see the image introduced in Genesis 1 and 2. Yet God states that this one image would be for (our use ... for us). I believe the spiritual God already had in mind that HE was going to use it in multiple ways, which scripture bears out. He used it in dreams of the night, open visions, and out right as a super natural man that could eat a meal and then ascend in a cloud of smoke ... and so forth.
I believe that God choose to come as Immanuel (OT spelling) among men within his own creation. This visage of God became known as the God of Israel and ultimately the Father LORD God.
I also believe that when a chosen time came, God came again as an Emmanuel (NT spelling) to dwell among men on earth. This time his image was of a natural fleshly nature. A body that could eat but was susceptible to death.
The ONE spiritual God remained the ONE God whether he existed as a Spirit or as the visage of the Father LORD or as the visage of the begotten Son our Lord Jesus.
God created the image and with that feat HE, the ONE, could work as three. All of God is life and the giver of life and etc. Therefore when God spoke ... it was his living WORD in action. His WORD was just as full of life as was all of him. This is why John the B could say that Christ was the WORD of God existing with God - while still being God.
God allocated all things of himself unto the visage of the Father and the Son.
BTW I know why God is referred to with male pronouns. Ans. Because his one image of a male. How do I know that God should not be identified as a female as a few people want to say? Because Adam did not look like a woman and it was Adam that was give the likeness of the image of God. Eve came later and had a different visage.
The ONE became three... all equal as the ONE.
However I do see a trinity ... while always remembering there is only ONE God. The ONE God was introduced to us in Genesis 1 as a spirit... So I believe that this is God's natural eternal state.
However, I do believe that he created one image for his personal use. We also see the image introduced in Genesis 1 and 2. Yet God states that this one image would be for (our use ... for us). I believe the spiritual God already had in mind that HE was going to use it in multiple ways, which scripture bears out. He used it in dreams of the night, open visions, and out right as a super natural man that could eat a meal and then ascend in a cloud of smoke ... and so forth.
I believe that God choose to come as Immanuel (OT spelling) among men within his own creation. This visage of God became known as the God of Israel and ultimately the Father LORD God.
I also believe that when a chosen time came, God came again as an Emmanuel (NT spelling) to dwell among men on earth. This time his image was of a natural fleshly nature. A body that could eat but was susceptible to death.
The ONE spiritual God remained the ONE God whether he existed as a Spirit or as the visage of the Father LORD or as the visage of the begotten Son our Lord Jesus.
God created the image and with that feat HE, the ONE, could work as three. All of God is life and the giver of life and etc. Therefore when God spoke ... it was his living WORD in action. His WORD was just as full of life as was all of him. This is why John the B could say that Christ was the WORD of God existing with God - while still being God.
God allocated all things of himself unto the visage of the Father and the Son.
BTW I know why God is referred to with male pronouns. Ans. Because his one image of a male. How do I know that God should not be identified as a female as a few people want to say? Because Adam did not look like a woman and it was Adam that was give the likeness of the image of God. Eve came later and had a different visage.
The ONE became three... all equal as the ONE.
beameup
New member
Draw near to me, hear this:
from the beginning I have not spoken in secret,
from the time it came to be I have been there.”
And now the Lord YHWH and his Spirit, hath sent ME.
Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel:
“I AM the LORD your God, who teaches you to profit,
who leads you in the way you should go.
There is one speaker throughout, and that is the Holy One of Israel,
the Redeemer that leads Israel. This is the ONE who led Israel out of Egypt,
the ONE in the burning bush, the I AM.
'Adonay YHWH
YHWH the Holy Redeemer
Spirit ruach 'elohim
from the beginning I have not spoken in secret,
from the time it came to be I have been there.”
And now the Lord YHWH and his Spirit, hath sent ME.
Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel:
“I AM the LORD your God, who teaches you to profit,
who leads you in the way you should go.
There is one speaker throughout, and that is the Holy One of Israel,
the Redeemer that leads Israel. This is the ONE who led Israel out of Egypt,
the ONE in the burning bush, the I AM.
'Adonay YHWH
YHWH the Holy Redeemer
Spirit ruach 'elohim
In the same passage ... God said: I AM the LORD. That is my name forever. Is it any wonder that Jesus said something like this: You call me Lord and rightly so ... buy why do you call me Lord and not do what I say.
Jesus was as much the Lord as was the Father.
Isaiah 43:11 I(God), even I, am the LORD, besides ME (who is God named Lord) there is no savior.
Jesus was as much the Lord as was the Father.
Isaiah 43:11 I(God), even I, am the LORD, besides ME (who is God named Lord) there is no savior.
beameup
New member
I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of YHWH, according to all that YHWH hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses. For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Savior.
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and The Angel of His Presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and He bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore He was turned to be their enemy, and He fought against them.
Isaiah 63:7-10
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and The Angel of His Presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and He bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore He was turned to be their enemy, and He fought against them.
Isaiah 63:7-10
Who are these "Rabbis of Old"? What evidence to you have for this theory?
Funny how beameup avoids responding to uncomfortable posts...