The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

No wonder you reject the blood of Christ.

I wouldnt trust a cult outreach organization on properly giving the most correct information on any one given group, without first going to the source and actual organizations/founders and people in the know within any given group first, and get the facts there as much as you can from those sources. For info. about the Urantia Book, people can go right to our thread on the subject, and for info. on its origins/who wrote it?, one can start here. There are also a few good books at least covering the story of origins and the early history of the books production, the process of its being compiled, etc.

As far as the UB's teaching on blood atonement, I've already given you a post here with links to all the pertinent commentaries on this, including the Eucharist (important to follow all links to my commentaries on this or you will not have a full comprehension) - these are very important if you would know the actual teaching, instead of misunderstanding or misrepresenting it. Ignorance on this or any matter is not recommended, when you dont have to be ignorant.

We would remind you, blood is symbolic of soul-life, the life of the flesh,...and even in the case of the blood of Christ, remains symbolic, it represents the life-force, the soul-life of Jesus, the giving of his life, to cover, redeem, cleanse, purify and the like, yet these are all metaphors, while what is required for salvation is FAITH,...and repentance, returning to God in prayer, sincerity of heart, singleness of vision, humility of soul, calling on the name of the Lord....it is these sacrifices (a broken heart, a contrite spirit) that the Lord accepts.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I wouldnt trust a cult outreach organization on properly giving the most correct information on any one given group, without first going to the source and actual organizations/founders and people in the know within any given group first, and get the facts there as much as you can from those sources. For info. about the Urantia Book, people can go right to our thread on the subject, and for info. on its origins/who wrote it?, one can start here. There are also a few good books at least covering the story of origins and the early history of the books production, the process of its being compiled, etc.

As far as the UB's teaching on blood atonement, I've already given you a post here with links to all the pertinent commentaries on this, including the Eucharist (important to follow all links to my commentaries on this or you will not have a full comprehension) - these are very important if you would know the actual teaching, instead of misunderstanding or misrepresenting it. Ignorance on this or any matter is not recommended, when you dont have to be ignorant.

We would remind you, blood is symbolic of soul-life, the life of the flesh,...and even in the case of the blood of Christ, remains symbolic, it represents the life-force, the soul-life of Jesus, the giving of his life, to cover, redeem, cleanse, purify and the like, yet these are all metaphors, while what is required for salvation is FAITH,...and repentance, returning to God in prayer, sincerity of heart, singleness of vision, humility of soul, calling on the name of the Lord....it is these sacrifices (a broken heart, a contrite spirit) that the Lord accepts.

One has to be reconciled to God through the blood of Christ.

You have never known the event.

You are ignorant of Gods word.

LA

 

[freelight]

Honesty with the blood...................

Honesty with the blood...................

One has to be reconciled to God through the blood of Christ.

You have never known the event.

You are ignorant of Gods word.

LA

I've addressed you LA

The essentials of what I have shared stand. For you to question my salvation or experience with 'God' is a very serious undertaking to go about doing. The blood of Jesus does have power, but its also symbolic and metaphorical in its representation, and I've shared amply about this. I do not doubt the blood's power, or its symbolic value, or its many different applications - what some of you more literalist/fundamentalists dont get, is my theology and metaphysics extends to include a greater circumfrence or universality of religious truth and allegory. Perhaps I'm a bit too cosmic

Also, for readers to follow along I'm also simultaneously addressing LA in our 'blood atonement according to Freelight' thread here - thanks LA,...you saved me from creating another thread on the subject,...so your legacy of dialogue on this one will follow

 

[Caino]

Are you saying you do not accept the scriptures where he is called the lamb of God by John the baptizer, the one who prepared the way?

Are you saying that you do not accept Revelation scriptures, the words of Jesus being called the Lamb?

Jesus was the Son of God, Johns characterization was his own. Just like when John warned of wrath to come. No wrath came.

 

[Caino]

2:6.4 The concept of God as a king-judge, although it fostered a high moral standard and created a law-respecting people as a group, left the individual believer in a sad position of insecurity respecting his status in time and in eternity. The later Hebrew prophets proclaimed God to be a Father to Israel; Jesus revealed God as the Father of each human being. The entire mortal concept of God is transcendently illuminated by the life of Jesus. Selflessness is inherent in parental love. God loves not like a father, but as a father. He is the Paradise Father of every universe personality.

2:6.5 Righteousness implies that God is the source of the moral law of the universe. Truth exhibits God as a revealer, as a teacher. But love gives and craves affection, seeks understanding fellowship such as exists between parent and child. Righteousness may be the divine thought, but love is a father's attitude. The erroneous supposition that the righteousness of God was irreconcilable with the selfless love of the heavenly Father, presupposed absence of unity in the nature of Deity and led directly to the elaboration of the atonement doctrine, which is a philosophic assault upon both the unity and the free-willness of God.

2:6.6 The affectionate heavenly Father, whose spirit indwells his children on earth, is not a divided personality—one of justice and one of mercy—neither does it require a mediator to secure the Father's favor or forgiveness. Divine righteousness is not dominated by strict retributive justice; God as a father transcends God as a judge.

2:6.7 God is never wrathful, vengeful, or angry. It is true that wisdom does often restrain his love, while justice conditions his rejected mercy. His love of righteousness cannot help being exhibited as equal hatred for sin. The Father is not an inconsistent personality; the divine unity is perfect. In the Paradise Trinity there is absolute unity despite the eternal identities of the co-ordinates of God.

2:6.8 God loves the sinner and hates the sin: such a statement is true philosophically, but God is a transcendent personality, and persons can only love and hate other persons. Sin is not a person. God loves the sinner because he is a personality reality (potentially eternal), while towards sin God strikes no personal attitude, for sin is not a spiritual reality; it is not personal; therefore does only the justice of God take cognizance of its existence. The love of God saves the sinner; the law of God destroys the sin. This attitude of the divine nature would apparently change if the sinner finally identified himself wholly with sin just as the same mortal mind may also fully identify itself with the indwelling spirit Adjuster. Such a sin-identified mortal would then become wholly unspiritual in nature (and therefore personally unreal) and would experience eventual extinction of being. Unreality, even incompleteness of creature nature, cannot exist forever in a progressingly real and increasingly spiritual universe.

2:6.9 Facing the world of personality, God is discovered to be a loving person; facing the spiritual world, he is a personal love; in religious experience he is both. Love identifies the volitional will of God. The goodness of God rests at the bottom of the divine free- willness—the universal tendency to love, show mercy, manifest patience, and minister forgiveness.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus was the Son of God, Johns characterization was his own. Just like when John warned of wrath to come. No wrath came.

Wrath does not come? You go against what is plainly written and you make for yourself a fake god, a god to your own human liking, a god that tickles your ears.

How is it that it is good to have fake? How is it to go against the Greatest Love ever known?

 

[Caino]

Wrath does not come? You go against what is plainly written and you make for yourself a fake god, a good to your own human liking, a god that tickles your ears.

How is it that it is good to have fake? How is it to go against the Greatest Love ever known?

No, wrath didn't come like the Jews expected, Jesus was very different than the expected Messiah. John got his ideas from speculation in the Old Testament. There was nothing fake about Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

No, wrath didn't come like the Jews expected, Jesus was very different than the expected Messiah. John got his ideas from speculation in the Old Testament. There was nothing fake about Jesus.

Your Jesus is fake because you pick apart the Word of God.

The God of the Holy Bible knows how to preserve His word for us.

Your Jesus is fake.

 

[Lon]

Cultures wouldn't have flood stories if the Bible flood story was true for the simple fact that they would have been drown! Then there is the strange claim that those same cultures came from Noahs kids, who remember a flood, but don't remember being related to great granddad Noah!!!!

:nono: ....all children of Noah. We all came from a common ancestor that could build a boat.

The simple truth is, all theses ancient cultures (that did not come from the Jews ancestors) have flood stories because there have been, and continue to be, large scale floods. Japan just experienced a catastrophic tsunami. Not long ago they would have attributed that to their deity. Today we understand it.

http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html

My point about divine church men is that the false doctrine of inspiration has men writing perfect scripture with no bias, no human influence. The Christian church sure the heck has suffered from human imperfection!

So and what? Divine inspiration is the doctrine that God can and did, dictate to fallen men, His divine words and instructions. That is why they all actually claim perfect inspiration.

Enter you: You can read them and figure out what they mean OR you can read what others reject about them as just another dupe in the agnostic cog-works. You can't just say they are not inspired because you don't like them or believe some other dupe. If you do, you've been duped by a dupe (and you have been). Read them! These scriptures claim divine perfection, all of them. The UB does not, therefore you need to read something that actually does. Why you nor PJ know this? :idunno:

 

[God's Truth]

Freelight and Caino,

Do you know who the thief is?

 

[Caino]

Your Jesus is fake because you pick apart the Word of God.

The God of the Holy Bible knows how to preserve His word for us.

Your Jesus is fake.

The Word is Living, the bible is mans imperfect written word.

 

[Caino]

:nono: ....all children of Noah. We all came from a common ancestor that could build a boat.

http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html

So and what? Divine inspiration is the doctrine that God can and did, dictate to fallen men, His divine words and instructions. That is why they all actually claim perfect inspiration.

Enter you: You can read them and figure out what they mean OR you can read what others reject about them as just another dupe in the agnostic cog-works. You can't just say they are not inspired because you don't like them or believe some other dupe. If you do, you've been duped by a dupe (and you have been). Read them! These scriptures claim divine perfection, all of them. The UB does not, therefore you need to read something that actually does. Why you nor PJ know this? :idunno:

I was raised in Christianity, I've read the Bible. As a child I could see the glaring errors and inconsistencies. Science, and just a little common sense, has debunked many of the exaggerated claims of the Jews. Jesus debunked the dim view of God in OT. When I found the Urantia revelation it made much more sense.

 

[Caino]

Freelight and Caino,

Do you know who the thief is?

Which thief?

 

[Lon]

I was raised in Christianity, I've read the Bible. As a child I could see the glaring errors and inconsistencies. Science, and just a little common sense, has debunked many of the exaggerated claims of the Jews. Jesus debunked the dim view of God in OT. When I found the Urantia revelation it made much more sense.

I read my bible as a child too. Aced science in school too. I came to exactly the opposite conclusion. There, we have expelled our biases and anecdotal stories. Let me remind you, yet once again: The Bible claims to be the inspired word of God. That you don't believe it? Just tough nuggies, really. It doesn't matter.

"The Statue of Liberty is 305" tall."

"I don't believe it."

"Tough noogies. What you believe or disbelieve has NOTHING to do with what is true."

"Jesus was in the heart of the earth the same # of days Jonah was in the whale."

"I don't believe Jonah could survive 3 days in a whale."

"Tough noogies. If you don't believe in a God 'Who can' you believe in a 'god who can't.' NOBODY wants a god who can't, not even you. Your conclusion thus, is proven false (unless you are an atheist, but even then)."

 

[Lazy afternoon]

2:6.7 God is never wrathful, vengeful, or angry. It is true that wisdom does often restrain his love, while justice conditions his rejected mercy. His love of righteousness cannot help being exhibited as equal hatred for sin. The Father is not an inconsistent personality; the divine unity is perfect. In the Paradise Trinity there is absolute unity despite the eternal identities of the co-ordinates of God.

What a lot of bunk.

Deu 9:18 And I fell down before the LORD, as at the first, forty days and forty nights: I did neither eat bread, nor drink water, because of all your sins which ye sinned, in doing wickedly in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
Deu 9:19 For I was afraid of the anger and hot displeasure, wherewith the LORD was wroth against you to destroy you. But the LORD hearkened unto me at that time also.
Deu 9:20 And the LORD was very angry with Aaron to have destroyed him: and I prayed for Aaron also the same time.

 

[Caino]

I read my bible as a child too. Aced science in school too. I came to exactly the opposite conclusion. There, we have expelled our biases and anecdotal stories. Let me remind you, yet once again: The Bible claims to be the inspired word of God. That you don't believe it? Just tough nuggies, really. It doesn't matter.



"Jesus was in the heart of the earth the same # of days Jonah was in the whale."

"I don't believe Jonah could survive 3 days in a whale."

"Tough noogies. If you don't believe in a God 'Who can' you believe in a 'god who can't.' NOBODY wants a god who can't, not even you. Your conclusion thus, is proven false (unless you are an atheist, but even then)."

I believe in a good and just God, a consistent God, a God of truth.

God cannot do the ungodlike thing. Your logic fails!

 

[Caino]

What a lot of bunk.

Deu 9:18 And I fell down before the LORD, as at the first, forty days and forty nights: I did neither eat bread, nor drink water, because of all your sins which ye sinned, in doing wickedly in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
Deu 9:19 For I was afraid of the anger and hot displeasure, wherewith the LORD was wroth against you to destroy you. But the LORD hearkened unto me at that time also.
Deu 9:20 And the LORD was very angry with Aaron to have destroyed him: and I prayed for Aaron also the same time.

Man wrote that, that's why it reflects mans way of thinking. The Son of God never acted like that. The story's written by the people who killed Jesus lead people into an immature concept of deity.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Man wrote that, that's why it reflects mans way of thinking. The Son of God never acted like that. The story's written by the people who killed Jesus lead people into an immature concept of deity.

Must you continue in your lies?

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I believe in a good and just God, a consistent God, a God of truth.

God cannot do the ungodlike thing. Your logic fails!

Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 

[Caino]

Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Pharaoh simply changed his mind, God had nothing to do with it.


156:5.3 On the evening of this same day Nathaniel asked Jesus: “Master, why do we pray that God will lead us not into temptation when we well know from your revelation of the Father that he never does such things?” Jesus answered Nathaniel:

156:5.4 “It is not strange that you ask such questions seeing that you are beginning to know the Father as sI know him, and not as the early Hebrew prophets so dimly saw him. You well know how our forefathers were disposed to see God in almost everything that happened. They looked for the hand of God in all natural occurrences and in every unusual episode of human experience. They connected God with both good and evil. They thought he softened the heart of Moses and hardened the heart of Pharaoh. When man had a strong urge to do something, good or evil, he was in the habit of accounting for these unusual emotions by remarking: `The Lord spoke to me saying, do thus and so, or go here and there.' Accordingly, since men so often and so violently ran into temptation, it became the habit of our forefathers to believe that God led them thither for testing, punishing, or strengthening. But you, indeed, now know better. You know that men are all too often led into temptation by the urge of their own selfishness and by the impulses of their animal natures. When you are in this way tempted,I admonish you that, while you recognize temptation honestly and sincerely for just what it is, you intelligently redirect the energies of spirit, mind, and body, which are seeking expression, into higher channels and toward more idealistic goals. In this way may you transform your temptations into the highest types of uplifting mortal ministry while you almost wholly avoid these wasteful and weakening conflicts between the animal and spiritual natures.

156:5.5 “But let me warn you against the folly of undertaking to surmount temptation by the effort of supplanting one desire by another and supposedly superior desire through the mere force of the human will. If you would be truly triumphant over the temptations of the lesser and lower nature, you must come to that place of spiritual advantage where you have really and truly developed an actual interest in, and love for, those higher and more idealistic forms of conduct which your mind is desirous of substituting for these lower and less idealistic habits of behavior that you recognize as temptation. You will in this way be delivered through spiritual transformation rather than be increasingly overburdened with the deceptive suppression of mortal desires. The old and the inferior will be forgotten in the love for the new and the superior. Beauty is always triumphant over ugliness in the hearts of all who are illuminated by the love of truth. There is mighty power in the expulsive energy of a new and sincere spiritual affection. And again I say to you, be not overcome by evil but rather overcome evil with good.”