The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[One Truth]

Aimiel, oh Aimiel, how long will you forbid the Spirit of Truth to free you?

You never answered my questions (except with a "yes"). Give me some samples, some solid answers. Or maybe you cannot?

Do you know for a fact that The Urantia Book is full of lies?
Can you name a few of those lies and why they are?

What is the Kingdom of God and where is it?
What is it that we “see?”
What does it mean to “be born again”, “born of the spirit?”
What is your experience?


Plus, you totally ignored:

“First-hand religion” is experiential, personal experience of God, and you say “hogwash” to that? The personal experience of finding and knowing God is “hogwash?” This is the personal religion of the spirit of which The Urantia Book teaches, and which Jesus Himself taught and you speak of it as “hogwash?”

Aimiel, you have much to learn, you have so much pre-conceived "knowledge" that you are almost totally closed-minded, closed spiritually, and are probably going to discover something very soon that will change your way of understanding and reception and when you do, you will find that God is not so angry as you are.

If you were really comfortable with what you believe you would not be so sarcastic, nor would you be so judgmental towards those who hold truths that you may not yet have received.

Why would "demons" pretend to point someone to the Father? Deception would lead you to "another" god, away from the One and True God, not towards Him.

"Demons" lie. How is "Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life" a lie?

Don't attribute the same Truth found in The Urantia Book as found in the Bible as a lie. That is just plain nonsense.

Again: what are these "doctrines of demons" that you are so sure The Urantia Book is full of? Name them.

 

[freelight]

the origin and transmission of the Papers.....

the origin and transmission of the Papers.....

Yes, it does, for a plethora of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that it was dictated by a demon, through a man in a trance. God doesn't work like that.

The books in the Bible have come thru in a variety of ways, and as far as 'trances' go...I guess you can rule out Peters experience of 'trance' and others referred to in the Bible, or any other supernatural occurances where 'knowledge' or 'revelation' was being transferred. The UB came thru means which are not typical of 'channelling', as there was one 'sleeping subject' involved. We've covered this in our other UB thread.

In any case,....one is to judge the content, character, wisdom, nature and spirit of the material,......and on this level...the material is intellectually stimulating and spiritually inspiring.
For you to 'claim' to know how 'God' works ...what He can and cant do...is rather presumptous and pretty pompous to boot. - just your "belief".

Related post -

Here is Dr. Meredith J. Sprunger's account of the origin and transmission of the Papers - He is also one of the foremost pioneers of synthesizing traditional Christianity and world religions with the Revelation of the Papers, His articles are recommended if you'd like to increase your understanding of the material (linked at bottom of post).



pj

 

[ThePresbyteers]

This message is deleted and closed.

 

[freelight]

final post for a good while

final post for a good while

Personal attacks are what's ignorant. Were you able to actually make a case for the UB having any Truths in it, you might not fell compelled to attack the messenger. Please grow up.

You're really pathetic.

Fortunately,...enough has been shared and those interested in the Papers can research and discover truth and wisdom for themselves.
:thumb:

Buy a clue. Also, most who know me, know I dont use the UB as the sole and only inspired writing or book, as I recognize many works that are inspired more or less.....for Truth/Light/Love is UNIVERSAL. You cant limit 'God' to your own little 'package' or 'belief-system',...He's INFINITE.


Back to Ignore you go

Dont let the door hit your hiney on the way out


:wave2:




pj

 

[Aimiel]

The books in the Bible have come thru in a variety of ways, and as far as 'trances' go...I guess you can rule out Peters experience of 'trance' and others referred to in the Bible, or any other supernatural occurances where 'knowledge' or 'revelation' was being transferred.

God may use a trance to communicate to us directly, but it is never recorded that an angel spoke through anyone, while in a trance, anywhere in The Bible. Your ignorance of such matters is obvious.

The UB came thru means which are not typical of 'channelling', as there was one 'sleeping subject' involved. We've covered this in our other UB thread.

It is how it was dictated, whether anyone still admits to the fact or not.

In any case,....one is to judge the content, character, wisdom, nature and spirit of the material,...

Without exception, we can know, that due to its dubious nature of having been obtained by a form of witchcraft, it is NOT from God.

...and on this level...the material is intellectually stimulating and spiritually inspiring.

So is the book, "Jonathan Livingston Seagull," but I wouldn't base my beliefs in God on it for one second.

For you to 'claim' to know how 'God' works ...what He can and cant do...is rather presumptous and pretty pompous to boot. - just your "belief".

It's also the belief of countless millions all over this planet. God Word doesn't require clarification or augmentation, especially if offered from hell.

 

[Aimiel]

You're really pathetic.

Thank you. Coming from you, I consider this VERY high praise, indeed.

Fortunately,...enough has been shared and those interested in the Papers can research and discover truth and wisdom for themselves.

Not if they believe those 'papers' to hold Truth... or wisdom, for that matter.

Also, most who know me, know I dont use the UB as the sole and only inspired writing or book, as I recognize many works that are inspired more or less...

I vote: "LESS."

..for Truth/Light/Love is UNIVERSAL.

It is, but it is also sad that there is no Truth in you or your false gods.

You cant limit 'God' to your own little 'package' or 'belief-system',...He's INFINITE.

I don't, but Jesus is The One and Only Truth. Your sales pitch for false gods is useless.

Buy a clue. Back to Ignore you go... Dont let the door hit your hiney on the way out

:flamer:

Promises, promises... if you really wanted to ignore me, you wouldn't keep posting to me, over and over, only to pretend to ignore me again and again. You know what I speak is Truth, even if you can't grasp that fact for one second, due to being in bondage to demonic forces.

 

[freelight]

I can't multi quote and don't know why.
you said, "The Bible isnt without its errors"
and "How so? You cant really judge can you, until you read at least the signficant portions of it."

We'll have to start with the root at the Bible if you're going to use Bible in the UB. From what I learned is there not a ~single~ error in the 66 books, the final collections of books in the Greek and Hebrew language. At the end, it turned out that way before the scientific discoveries of the proofs that the chances of error in those 66 books are slim times-gazillions. God caused certain pages to be added and subtracted that made those numbers and proofs match up perfectly without a ~single~ flaw. How perfect is that? Long story on the math part of the discoveries. At the end, it turns out the the 66 book Bible is without errors and the errors are so slim that the errors doesn't even exist. In other words, the chances of errors are like you throwing 10 dices down the ground and every one of them landed on number one. The chances of error are much slimmer when you do this a hundred times, in a row. And then do this every day of your life and still get all ones on every roll. Its a joke to play with the chances of error that only a God can do.

So when one say that the UB claims the Bible (66books) to be in a single error, that makes me not want to beat around and avoid those ideas in the thousands of pages of pages that might claim the same "Error in Bible" ideas. I would probaly enjoy reading the UB and might be better than the Harry Potter books or the Tim LaHaye's end-times fictions. What's the difference between the Tim LaHaye's fictions and UB? Most Christians don't want proof so they can believe without seeing Jesus or faith alone. Once you see, theres no way out. Proof is going to be proof. Nothing to argue about.

If you add a ~single~ letter from the other writings that are not in the 66 books, then the Bible is in error and the UB claims would be true. First, you'll have to see the proofs yourself. All the other books failed the test, a million times. It's all down in writing. A calculator gives the same results every time. The test are true on every tests.

Perhaps you can rewrite the Urantia books and remove the Bible errors parts and include the proofs. You will be making it better.

The second part of the UB is I'm not sure about the Michael being Jesus but I can understand how JW, Seventh-day Adventist and the UB could say and point out where Michael the angel and Jesus fits to be the same. I haven't looked into that probably cause I usually combine many things to be one and the same or things being at two places at the same time.

Hi Pres,....I dont know about the claims of the Bible being so mathmatically correct, or without error. There are those who claim such, and many who contest such...each giving their examples. So,...opinions abound, and after all...what is spiritually true, morally integrous, intellectually honest and most consonant with real wisdom.....WINS.

I already recommended you read the Foreward and at least the first 12 Papers...these are foundational - the nature of God, the soul and the structure of the universes.....one must know the fundamentals first, then you can branch out and put together the pieces of all 'else' in the expanding universes of space and time, relative to the eternal and infinite purpose of the eternal Godhead behind all that IS.

Comparing the Papers with Harry Potter is comical, if not ignorant. After reading the first 12 Papers, get back with us...and see if there is any relation.

About Jesus being known as 'Christ Michael' this is covered in our other UB thread. The Creator Son are knows as 'Michaels', the Order of Michael. They are not 'arch-angels', but divine Creator Sons. Therefore Jesus is also known as 'Christ-Michael',...such is just a title, a role denoting the nature and constutition of this Sovereign Son, the Creator of this local universe, and our Planetary Prince. The UB has its own unique teaching in this respect on the Creator Sons of the Order of Michael. Some might say that SDA theology had some influence with this concept (however convoluted), but this is open to speculation.

This is all in the Papers. Learn for yourself.


pj

 

[ThePresbyteers]

This message is deleted and closed.

 

[freelight]

It's a new discovery so The 66 books has to be true. Most don't want scientifically proofs that they can perform the tests themselves. I did and found them true. Effort is the key or otherwise you'll keep saying the Bible has errors as the UB claims.

We shall await proofs that the Bible is somehow mathematically true in every single one its verses. Good luck with that. Its a hodge-podge of books written by various authors, over different periods of time, some inspired more or less. Also, the UB isnt the only source that claims there are 'errors' in the Bible. Effort is essential yes...in doing honest research.

I did get a UB concordance sent to me via my library. It's a huge book bit it ain't going to help much without the other huge book, UB. The library has them on the reference shelf and can't be checked out. I do find it interesting but I don't think that book is ever going to find it's way into my home. I ain't got $$$ for it either nor would I want to sit on my butt reading it on the computer. Too many pages. Too many hick-ups on the UB to look into. It's a maze of "maybe true" and maybe not true" statements but I know what you're saying about reading it till your mind changes the channels. I'm more into feeling in my environments as an observant of my surroundings.

The first few papers are not that LONG and very important! On the Nature of God. (the Father, Son and Spirit). Read those, and see if they are not true, they speak for themselves. I find it a lousy exuse that you cant find the time to read the first few Papers on the most important subject in the Universe. You can remain ignorant or enlightened on what it teaches, your choice.

Heres the First Paper - The Universal Father The following essential papers are just about as long. It contains the essential theology of traditional/orthodox Christianity, yet expands it appropriate to this dispensation of revealed-knowledge (a greater cosmic context and vision of the Universe).

If you want to continue on 'energy' (Qi)...you can start your own thread in that direction.



pj

 

[ThePresbyteers]

This message is deleted and closed.

 

[freelight]

Most think Qi is of the devil. Should we stop their supply of oxygen?

You silly boy (pardon if I got the 'gender' wrong). No, but they should put it to better use dontcha think? Remember Jesus said, 'God' will give the Holy Spirit to those who genuinely ask for it, for does He not lead and guide us with His Spirit? Is not the Spirit, the 'life' and 'breath' of 'God'?





pj

 

[Stuu]

Caino

You're wrong again, but its understandable seeing how you have not read this 2000 page book that you so vehemently disagree with.
5. ORIGIN OF MONMATIA—
THE URANTIA SOLAR SYSTEM

57:5.1 5,000,000,000 years ago your sun was a comparatively isolated blazing orb, having gathered to itself most of the near-by circulating matter of space, remnants of the recent upheaval which attended its own birth.

57:5.2 Today, your sun has achieved relative stability, but its eleven and one-half year sunspot cycles betray that it was a variable star in its youth. In the early days of your sun the continued contraction and consequent gradual increase of temperature initiated tremendous convulsions on its surface. These titanic heaves required three and one-half days to complete a cycle of varying brightness. This variable state, this periodic pulsation, rendered your sun highly responsive to certain outside influences which were to be shortly encountered.

57:5.3 Thus was the stage of local space set for the unique origin of Monmatia, that being the name of your sun's planetary family, the solar system to which your world belongs. Less than one per cent of the planetary systems of Orvonton have had a similar origin.

57:5.4 4,500,000,000 years ago the enormous Angona system began its approach to the neighborhood of this solitary sun. The center of this great system was a dark giant of space, solid, highly charged, and possessing tremendous gravity pull.

(655.4) 57:4.8 6,000,000,000 years ago marks the end of the terminal breakup and the birth of your sun, the fifty-sixth from the last of the Andronover second solar family. This final eruption of the nebular nucleus gave birth to 136,702 suns, most of them solitary orbs. The total number of suns and sun systems having origin in the Andronover nebula was 1,013,628. The number of the solar system sun is 1,013,572.
The existence of a sun means the existence of a solar system, Caino. The same supernova that ejected the heavy elements which accreted into the planets also induced the formation of the sun. Your own quote says the “events triggering the formation of the solar system” had happened 5 billion years ago. As in the paragraph above, your Book of Plagiarism says it happened 6 billion years ago.

• Continental drift theory was OUT OF FAVOR at the time of the UB, for them to rely exclusively on it would have been unwise, yet I think you lack wisdom and are overwhelmed with pride, therefore these clues elude you.

I stand by the response I made to you earlier. It does not matter whether you copy unpopular science or popular science and pass it off as your own knowledge, you are a cowardly plagiarist either way. In any case it is simply untrue that Wegener’s idea was “out of favour” in 1955.

• The most recent validation of science with the UB was the discovery concerning the Fox Hall peoples in England

Are you just copying this nonsense mindlessly from an apologist site? Looks like plagiarism is ingrained in the culture of this cult of belief. You might be a bit more careful with the editing at least.

Go back to school and learn how to do research, you're out of the loop!

New Evidence Puts Man In North America 50,000 Years Ago
Science Daily
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1118104010.htm

Once again, I stand by what I wrote earlier. The best evidence of human habitation is human remains, and the oldest found to date is 13,000 years old. I did concede happily that there is valid consideration of evidence of 40,000 years ago, and I also happily concede that it makes little difference if some have found evidence that supports a proposal for a date of 50,000 years ago. What I wrote is still true. It is also still at least 30,000 years off the Book of Plagiarism’s bad guessing. The evidence for human habitation of America (as opposed to the big long list of irrelevant data about Europe) is far from great past 13,000 years ago. The 50,000 year date is not accepted widely and could be derived from dating charcoal from a forest fire, not from material left by humans.

Stuart

 

[ThePresbyteers]

This message is deleted and closed.

 

[freelight]

different perspectives on spirit................

different perspectives on spirit................

I did have discussions on Qi in Christian forums as well as Martial Art forums and Taoist/Hindu/Buddist forums. In China, Qi is used in many ways and pronounced in different ways meaning different things depending on how it is used. In the post earlier, I used Qi as air. If America has more than 2,000 denominations with each cliaming they know better than each other, the Chinese also has many denominations of thier religions or cults. Qi in China is dificult to explain, expecialy to the free-willist.
Qi is something that animate us. Qi is part of what causes us to be a living being. Without Qi, we die. I'll save Qi for another topic. If Qi animates everything including every being that breathes and if you're asking me if the living being asks for the Holy Spirit while he already has Qi, then you're the silly boy. If you say Qi is the Holy Spirit and at the same time the Holy Spirit doesn't live in a person that didn't ask for it and yet you say everyone has Qi, then you'll need to regroup and back away from the UB and more towards what pneumatology means in the Bible and how the Hebrew and the Greeks use the word breath that was breathed into Adam.

Qi is information.

Humans don't want to ask for the Holy Spirit nor will they ask for it.

All Humans have Qi

So that makes Qi not the same as the Holy Spirit.

Maybe UB groups all these things together, then we'll have to talk duality.

Very good

Obviously all have 'breath', are breathing 'air', are 'animated', have 'life/vitality', etc. I merely quoted from Jesus where he says the Father would lovingly give the Holy Spirit to anyone who sincerely asked him, - gospel of Luke,...if you know your NT....you'd be familiar with this verse. One can interpret that as they wish, whether this is a 'second blessing', extra 'anointing', enhanced immersion in the divine Presence, etc.

As far as a 'biblical presentation' on such (if you want to get technical),...its apparent in the NT that people received the Holy Spirit. - you cant receive what you already have. Therefore....one can be without the HS in this context, compared to a time without the Spirit, - so we have to get our terms rightly defined here, if speaking from a NT perspective. If you'd like to keep 'Qi' as a universal energy-essence-spirit-life...that all living beings have, then certainly all have this animating life-force.

Again, the UB has much to share about the Spirit and its various ministries, functions and whole orders of 'beings' who serve under this third aspect of the Godhead. There is the Infinite Spirit(yes considered to be a divine personality), and all the other various energies, elements, forces of a more non-personal nature that fill and permeate the universe. - We can differentiate, define or allocate these per our choosing. I notice you still identify as a 'Christian' - so yours is the challenge in reconciling how 'Qi' fits in with NT theology.

Will look for more quotes from the Papers on this........



pj

 

[Caino]

Sigh......., Stuu,

• The Solar system was considered as such by the revelators when the plants began to form from the material that was disgorged from the Sun. The sun was basically alone prior to that. It would have just been a Solar and not a Solar System.

• The book says 4.5 billion years, you are flat wrong.


Caino

 

[Caino]

PRAYER AND THE ALTER EGO​

"91:3.1 Children, when first learning to make use of language, are prone to think out loud, to express their thoughts in words, even if no one is present to hear them. With the dawn of creative imagination they evince a tendency to converse with imaginary companions. In this way a budding ego seeks to hold communion with a fictitious alter ego. By this technique the child early learns to convert his monologue conversations into pseudo dialogues in which this alter ego makes replies to his verbal thinking and wish expression. Very much of an adult's thinking is mentally carried on in conversational form.

91:3.2 The early and primitive form of prayer was much like the semimagical recitations of the present-day Toda tribe, prayers that were not addressed to anyone in particular. But such techniques of praying tend to evolve into the dialogue type of communication by the emergence of the idea of an alter ego. In time the alter-ego concept is exalted to a superior status of divine dignity, and prayer as an agency of religion has appeared. Through many phases and during long ages this primitive type of praying is destined to evolve before attaining the level of intelligent and truly ethical prayer.

91:3.3 As it is conceived by successive generations of praying mortals, the alter ego evolves up through ghosts, fetishes, and spirits to polytheistic gods, and eventually to the One God, a divine being embodying the highest ideals and the loftiest aspirations of the praying ego. And thus does prayer function as the most potent agency of religion in the conservation of the highest values and ideals of those who pray. From the moment of the conceiving of an alter ego to the appearance of the concept of a divine and heavenly Father, prayer is always a socializing, moralizing, and spiritualizing practice.

91:3.4 The simple prayer of faith evidences a mighty evolution in human experience whereby the ancient conversations with the fictitious symbol of the alter ego of primitive religion have become exalted to the level of communion with the spirit of the Infinite and to that of a bona fide consciousness of the reality of the eternal God and Paradise Father of all intelligent creation.

91:3.5 Aside from all that is superself in the experience of praying, it should be remembered that ethical prayer is a splendid way to elevate one's ego and reinforce the self for better living and higher attainment. Prayer induces the human ego to look both ways for help: for material aid to the subconscious reservoir of mortal experience, for inspiration and guidance to the superconscious borders of the contact of the material with the spiritual, with the Mystery Monitor.

91:3.6 Prayer ever has been and ever will be a twofold human experience: a psychologic procedure interassociated with a spiritual technique. And these two functions of prayer can never be fully separated.

91:3.7 Enlightened prayer must recognize not only an external and personal God but also an internal and impersonal Divinity, the indwelling Adjuster. It is altogether fitting that man, when he prays, should strive to grasp the concept of the Universal Father on Paradise; but the more effective technique for most practical purposes will be to revert to the concept of a near-by alter ego, just as the primitive mind was wont to do, and then to recognize that the idea of this alter ego has evolved from a mere fiction to the truth of God's indwelling mortal man in the factual presence of the Adjuster so that man can talk face to face, as it were, with a real and genuine and divine alter ego that indwells him and is the very presence and essence of the living God, the Universal Father. UB




Caino

 

[freelight]

Energy source being 'God' and the Paradise center of the Grand Universe

Energy source being 'God' and the Paradise center of the Grand Universe

I'll save Qi for another topic.

Qi is information.

Paper 42 on Energy-Mind and Matter will provide insights on 'energy' from a cosmological perspective. Read meditatively it has power to expand insight into the subtle and inter-fluxing relationships between energy, mind, matter and spirit, in their varying levels of association.

Excerpt below -


Paradise forces and energies

42:1.1 The foundation of the universe is material, but the essence of life is spirit. The Father of spirits is also the ancestor of universes; the eternal Father of the Original Son is also the eternity-source of the original pattern, the Isle of Paradise.

42:1.2 Matter—energy—for they are but diverse manifestations of the same cosmic reality, as a universe phenomenon is inherent in the Universal Father. " In him all things consist. " Matter may appear to manifest inherent energy and to exhibit self-contained powers, but the lines of gravity involved in the energies concerned in all these physical phenomena are derived from, and are dependent on, Paradise. The ultimaton, the first measurable form of energy, has Paradise as its nucleus.



pj

 

[One Truth]

Aimiel?

I'm waiting on the answers to my questions? Or are you having trouble finding all the "demonic doctrines" you say are contained in The Urantia Book? Oh, yes, that means you would need to read it first. I hope that is what you are doing.

What is your experience of rebirth (being born of the spirit)?

 

[Charity]

Is being born in the spirit a method related to the foundation escaping the curse?

death came about by the curse. eternal life comes about by rebirth.

Was the curse real? clarity, is a repairer of the breech necessary?
Yes because it is necessary to correct any misunderstanding that controls generation after generation.

 

[freelight]

Thinking allowed......

Thinking allowed......

Aimiel?

I'm waiting on the answers to my questions? Or are you having trouble finding all the "demonic doctrines" you say are contained in The Urantia Book? Oh, yes, that means you would need to read it first. I hope that is what you are doing.

What is your experience of rebirth (being born of the spirit)?

Just a heads up One Truth,....all past records and dialogues with this individual remain consistently unfruitful and diversionary, for he is convinced he has the sole and only truth, so I admire your effort here, but some of us have been thru this with him for some years now. While the UB is plum full of essential doctrines and principles taught and recognized by traditional/orthodox Christian theology, any form of it revealed in the UB will be seen as a 'demonic deception' of course, - you will get the same posturing, as long as the underlying mentality, misperceptions and belief-system is held by said person. Granted, all have their 'point of view' as the best one they are able to adopt, perceive and validate at any given time, and all 'viewpoints' are subject to change. Life is kinda like that,...ever in flux.

Good luck, if you feel the 'exchange' will continue to educate and illumine any readers here, in addition to whats already been shared.


pj