ECT The Land Promise the LORD Gave To David

[TweetyBird]

Why are you so eager to pervert the words of the Lord Jesus? When He said this He was not speaking of coming to the New Heaven and the New Earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

His words there were in answer to His disciples' question of what will be the signs of His coming (Mt.24:3). And they were not asking Him about His coming to the New Heaven and the New Earth but instead coming to the earth on which they lived!

Jesus is not coming to this earth, but to a new earth. This earth will be toast when He returns on the clouds of glory.

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Interplanner]

Jesus is not coming to this earth, but to a new earth. This earth will be toast when He returns on the clouds of glory.

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Right, other than destruction, I don't see any normal-language passage in the NT putting Christ on this earth in a theocracy etc. It was all about the NHNE.

 

[Right Divider]

Right, other than destruction, I don't see any normal-language passage in the NT putting Christ on this earth in a theocracy etc. It was all about the NHNE.

Luke 1:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. (1:32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (1:33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

​

What in the world to you think that "the throne of his father David" is? or "the house of Jacob"?

NOTE TO ALL: Get ready for the "big interp". :rotfl:

 

[Interplanner]

Luke 1:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. (1:32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (1:33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

​

What in the world to you think that "the throne of his father David" is? or "the house of Jacob"?

NOTE TO ALL: Get ready for the "big interp". :rotfl:

The NT says that is the throne he ascended to in the resurrection. That is why the most common psalms used by the apostles were 2, 16 and 110 because they had been schooled to realize by Jesus that that is what it was all about . It is not about a Davidic theocracy, which is why that is not mentioned in the long reign of Christ in the Rev, and why this current reign which exists by proclamation, not by brick and mortar construction, ends and is superceded by the NHNE.

It is not complicated. All 2P2P is is complicated.

 

[Right Divider]

The NT says that is the throne he ascended to in the resurrection. That is why the most common psalms used by the apostles were 2, 16 and 110 because they had been schooled to realize by Jesus that that is what it was all about . It is not about a Davidic theocracy, which is why that is not mentioned in the long reign of Christ in the Rev, and why this current reign which exists by proclamation, not by brick and mortar construction, ends and is superceded by the NHNE.

It is not complicated. All 2P2P is is complicated.

More hogwash that you scripture twisters and deniers love.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jesus is not coming to this earth, but to a new earth. This earth will be toast when He returns on the clouds of glory.

Let us look at this verse:

"Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously" (Isa.24:23).​

Here we see that when He reigns in Jerusalem "the moon shall be confounded and the sun ashamed." This could not possibly be referring to the new earth because there will be no need of the light of the sun there:

"And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever" (Rev.22:5).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Right, other than destruction, I don't see any normal-language passage in the NT putting Christ on this earth in a theocracy etc. It was all about the NHNE.

Here is the answer the Lord Jesus gave His disciples when He was asked about His coming to the earth on which they were standing:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

The following words of Job demonstrate that the Lord Jesus will stand on the earth in the latter day:

"For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God" (Job 19:25-26).​

Indeed, the following passage foretells of the time when the Lord will stand upon the earth:

"Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem" (Zech.14:3-4).​

When He will be reigning on the earth His saints will sit with Him in His throne and will reign with Him:

"And hast made us unto our God a kingdom of priests: and we shall reign on the earth" (Rev.5:10).​

Since the Christian will reign with Him on the earth and sit with Him on His throne, then it is certain that His throne will be on the earth:

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev.3:21).​

 

[Interplanner]

Here is the answer the Lord Jesus gave His disciples when He was asked about His coming to the earth on which they were standing:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

The following words of Job demonstrate that the Lord Jesus will stand on the earth in the latter day:

"For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God" (Job 19:25-26).​

Indeed, the following passage foretells of the time when the Lord will stand upon the earth:

"Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem" (Zech.14:3-4).​

When He will be reigning on the earth His saints will sit with Him in His throne and will reign with Him:

"And hast made us unto our God a kingdom of priests: and we shall reign on the earth" (Rev.5:10).​

Since the Christian will reign with Him on the earth and sit with Him on His throne, then it is certain that His throne will be on the earth:

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev.3:21).​

WE are already more than overcomers Jerry, whereyabeen? There is nothing in those verses that insists that it be a theocracy on this earth as we know it. NHNE? Yes. Too many of them are about the kingdom that exists now.

there is nothing at Rev 3:21 that has to be on this earth.

 

[beloved57]

Luke 1:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. (1:32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (1:33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

​

What in the world to you think that "the throne of his father David" is? or "the house of Jacob"?

NOTE TO ALL: Get ready for the "big interp". :rotfl:

Thats Christ and His Church ! The House of Jacob is the Body of Christ. The Physical seed of Abraham Israel, they are not the children of God, so their destiny is hell with all the rest of the children of the devil !

 

[Interplanner]

You would think people would realize that after the collapse of Judean monarchy, and exile, and then Daniel comes along a mentions a kingdom made without human hands, that there is some kind of shift going on. That's Daniel who prayed for a restoration and was told that Messiah would come in ch 9 but a rebuilt city and sanctuary would be decimated in about 500 years.

D'ism and 2P2P have done nothing but destroy a person's sense of the flow of the Bible.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You would think people would realize that after the collapse of Judean monarchy, and exile, and then Daniel comes along a mentions a kingdom made without human hands, that there is some kind of shift going on. That's Daniel who prayed for a restoration and was told that Messiah would come in ch 9 but a rebuilt city and sanctuary would be decimated in about 500 years.

D'ism and 2P2P have done nothing but destroy a person's sense of the flow of the Bible.

Your opinions require you to ignore logic/reason. I admire you for being capable of doing that with a straight face so to say.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

WE are already more than overcomers Jerry, whereyabeen? There is nothing in those verses that insists that it be a theocracy on this earth as we know it. NHNE? Yes. Too many of them are about the kingdom that exists now.

Of course you can say that since you believe that the Lord did indeed "alter" the promises which He made to David despite the fact that He said that He would not!

You prove that you can remain comfortable in your position despite the fact that you have to insist that the Lord lied to David!

But what do you care!

 

[Interplanner]

Of course you can say that since you believe that the Lord did indeed "alter" the promises which He made to David despite the fact that He said that He would not!

You prove that you can remain comfortable in your position despite the fact that you have to insist that the Lord lied to David!

But what do you care!

It's not a lie if Christ himself said 'how then can he call him his son?' is it?

We have been transferred into his kingdom by believing the Gospel--the Gospel regarding his son who was a human descendant of David but was intalled on his throne with power in the resurrection, Rom 1:2-3.

LIkewise the raised fallen tent of David is the believers who are both Jew and Gentile, and this 'was known for ages' says Amos 9 quoted in Acts 15. Only theologs turn it inside out to mean something else!

Don't you understand Acts 1? They ask your question but they are told the power (the admin authority) is being given to them shortly through the Spirit; that kingdom is here.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It's not a lie if Christ himself said 'how then can he call him his son?' is it?

You continue to insist that the Lord "altered" the promises which He made to David even though He said that He would do no such thing:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

You prove that you are perfectly happy clinging to your beliefs, even though those beliefs are based on the idea that the Lord altered His promise which He made to David and therefore lied to David!

Don't you understand Acts 1? They ask your question but they are told the power (the admin authority) is being given to them shortly through the Spirit; that kingdom is here.

Of course you overlook the fact that we learn in the first chapter of Acts that the Apostles had been with the Lord Jesus for forty days while He tutored them on the things concerning the kingdom. Then they asked Him the following question:

"Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6).​

Of course if they were in error for thinking such a thing, then the Lord would have corrected them, especially since He was sending them out to preach the "gospel of the kingdom."

Instead, He only told them that they were not to know the time when it would happen. Common sense dictates that if the kingdom was never going to be restored to Israel then the Lord would have said nothing about the time it would happen.

Despite these facts you continue to cling to the delusion that you know more about the kingdom than did the Apostles. How much time did you spend learning about the things of the kingdom from the Lord Jesus in Person?

 

[Interplanner]

You continue to insist that the Lord "altered" the promises which He made to David even though He said that He would do no such thing:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

You prove that you are perfectly happy clinging to your beliefs, even though those beliefs are based on the idea that the Lord altered His promise which He made to David and therefore lied to David!



Of course you overlook the fact that we learn in the first chapter of Acts that the Apostles had been with the Lord Jesus for forty days while He tutored them on the things concerning the kingdom. Then they asked Him the following question:

"Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6).​

Of course if they were in error for thinking such a thing, then the Lord would have corrected them, especially since He was sending them out to preach the "gospel of the kingdom."

Instead, He only told them that they were not to know the time when it would happen. Common sense dictates that if the kingdom was never going to be restored to Israel then the Lord would have said nothing about the time it would happen.

Despite these facts you continue to cling to the delusion that you know more about the kingdom than did the Apostles. How much time did you spend learning about the things of the kingdom from the Lord Jesus in Person?

They weren't supposed to know when because that brings out a lot of awful features in people. Instead they were to be given the power or authority of it through the Spirit to start its mission. There is no need for and will not be a Davidic theocracy other than what is going on.

You continue to miss what is being said in 'how then can (Christ) be (David's) son?' I mean you are miles from understanding what happened in the NT until you accept what he is disconnecting there. Nor is it about lying, which is your pet peeve accusation. The thing promised was delivered, and the Spirit came in power. The Psalms declare that the resurrection of Christ was that enthronement.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

They weren't supposed to know when because that brings out a lot of awful features in people.

The Lord Jesus did not tell them why they were not to know when the kingdom would be restored to Israel. However, the Lord would have not said anything about when it would happen if it is never going to happen!

So can you understand that there will come a time when the kingdom will be restored to Israel?

 

[Interplanner]

The Lord Jesus did not tell them why they were not to know when the kingdom would be restored to Israel. However, the Lord would have not said anything about when it would happen if it is never going to happen!

So can you understand that there will come a time when the kingdom will be restored to Israel?

No there's nothing about it in the NT's descriptions of the end of time. There is no theological reason why there should be, not if Heb 8 is the official interp of Jer 23-33.

And he gave them administrative/kingdom power to proclaim the kingdom's announcement there in Acts. You see, he said it is not for you to know what time. That's why they didn't know in advance it was going to happen at 9am that morning at Pentecost or any of the other times when the Spirit did its work. That's what he meant.

There is nothing as blind in all this as reading the OT with its non- or anti-Christ-ian glasses. That would be the ones that see the fulfillment IN CHRIST.

All I have known of D'ism for 40 years is its ability to strain out what is not in texts. This is regularly done in early Acts, in Rom 11 in Mt 23 ('blessed is he who comes...') Meanwhile they trash Acts 13, Ps 2, 16, 110 and the whole book of Hebrews. Mostly by neglect--by not using them.

 

[Right Divider]

No there's nothing about it in the NT's descriptions of the end of time. There is no theological reason why there should be, not if Heb 8 is the official interp of Jer 23-33.

And he gave them administrative/kingdom power to proclaim the kingdom's announcement there in Acts. You see, he said it is not for you to know what time. That's why they didn't know in advance it was going to happen at 9am that morning at Pentecost or any of the other times when the Spirit did its work. That's what he meant.

No, that is NOT what He "meant". That is your bizarre, convoluted, man-made "interp" of what YOU think that it should mean.

There is nothing as blind in all this as reading the OT with its non- or anti-Christ-ian glasses. That would be the ones that see the fulfillment IN CHRIST.

All I have known of D'ism for 40 years is its ability to strain out what is not in texts. This is regularly done in early Acts, in Rom 11 in Mt 23 ('blessed is he who comes...') Meanwhile they trash Acts 13, Ps 2, 16, 110 and the whole book of Hebrews. Mostly by neglect--by not using them.

You do not know the dispensations of God, so it's understandable that you're confused about everything.

 

[Interplanner]

No, that is NOT what He "meant". That is your bizarre, convoluted, man-made "interp" of what YOU think that it should mean.


You do not know the dispensations of God, so it's understandable that you're confused about everything.

Anyone reading the text and paying attention can see that their question was redirected to the receiving of power and that without knowing when it would happen, and that this happened in the Pentecost event. It is very clear and simple. Leave it alone.

2P2P is full of cankerous, irrational exceptions and detours and backdoors, like I addressed in my previous post that the 'indestructible life' of Christ in Heb 7 had to do with his outreach to Israel. It is folly that makes the Bible infinitely impossible to understand.

 

[Right Divider]

Anyone reading the text and paying attention can see that their question was redirected to the receiving of power and that without knowing when it would happen, and that this happened in the Pentecost event. It is very clear and simple. Leave it alone.

That's YOUR bad "interp" and I will leave it alone.

2P2P is full of cankerous, irrational exceptions and detours and backdoors, like I addressed in my previous post that the 'indestructible life' of Christ in Heb 7 had to do with his outreach to Israel. It is folly that makes the Bible infinitely impossible to understand.

The Bible is plain and simple, but you make it a fairy story. Leave it alone.