The "L" in TULIP Means that Jesus is NOT Lord

rougueone

rougueone

New member
Robert Pate said:
The Calvinist doctrine of a Limited Atonement is one of the great heresies of the century.

To believe in a "Limited Atonement" is to believe that Jesus did NOT atone for the sins of the whole world and to believe that he only atoned for the sins of some people, but not all people.

There are mutiple things wrong with this false doctrine.

If we are going to be Bible believing Christians we will have reject this false doctrine based upon scripture alone.

"And he is a propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2.

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the SAVIOR OF THE WORLD" 1 John 4:14.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED" John 3:17.

"For we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD" John 4:42.

"I came not to judge the world, BUT TO SAVE THE WORLD" John 12:47.

If Jesus had not atoned for all of the sins of the world, then God never would have accepted Jesus back into heaven. Jesus was accepted into heaven because he had victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15.

The resounding message of the New Testament is that "Jesus is Lord". He is Lord because he has put ALL THINGS under him and he is above all things, Colossians 1:20. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus, Jesus has victoriously reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

The most serious part of believing in a "Limited Atonement" is to believe that Jesus is NOT Lord. To believe that Jesus is not Lord means that you do not have faith in him. The Bible teaches that Jesus is God in the flesh. Jesus had to be God to save us.

Jesus said, "I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he (Lord) or (God) you will die in your sins" John 8:24.
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Robert, Same Thread, different title. Calvinist. Give it a break Robert. You have been on this tirade for months now.
I am questioning your own beliefs Robert. Are you ?
 
rougueone

rougueone

New member
Brother Ducky said:
The question is whether all can ask for it; in the sense of are they able to see the goodness and eternal value of asking without God changing their hearts beforehand.

AMR as often posted verses that indicate the inability of fallen man, on his own to come to Christ. While I have often asked for a free-will salvationist anthropology to explain why they would hold that a sinful man could go against his nature and come to Christ. Personally, I can not think of anything approaching that in Scripture. The closest thing I can think of is Joshua's "choose this day" speech, but most of the OT is the story of how well that worked out.
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John 12:37,38
The Unbelief of the People
37But though He had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him. 38This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?"…

John12:42,43

Some Believe in Jesus.....They made a choice.

42Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.…


Romans 1:20,21,22
God's Wrath against Sin
…20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools,…


They made a choice.
 
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R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Calvinist want us to believe that God sends his only begotten Son into the world to die for some of the sins of the world, but not all of the sins of the world.

Does that make sense?

God sends his Son into the world to atone for the sins of the world then he blinds some so that they cannot believe.

Does that make sense?

Why would God who is all powerful, send his Son into the world and NOT atone for all of the sins of the world?

Why would God send his Son into the world to atone for the sins of the world and then hide it from some?

Nothing in the doctrine of a limited atonement makes sense.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
rougueone said:
Robert, Same Thread, different title. Calvinist. Give it a break Robert. You have been on this tirade for months now.
I am questioning your own beliefs Robert. Are you ?
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Your purpose in life as a Christian is to...

1. Preach the Gospel.

2. Refute heresy.

If you are not doing one of the two, you are not fulfilling your purpose in life.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
rougueone said:
Robert, Same Thread, different title. Calvinist. Give it a break Robert. You have been on this tirade for months now.
I am questioning your own beliefs Robert. Are you ?
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I think Robert believes he can turn tares into wheat.
 
rougueone

rougueone

New member
Robert Pate said:
Your purpose in life as a Christian is to...

1. Preach the Gospel.

2. Refute heresy.

If you are not doing one of the two, you are not fulfilling your purpose in life.
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Yet who constantly brings up Calvinism? Very very few. You bring it up Robert. And who is edified? Consider this.


Yes Robert you mention two. There are many objectives God decreed upon us.... To which 1. Preach the Gospel. Yes. Gods LOVE sealed in your heart brother. Devotion, on your knees devotion to GOD. Always continuing in prayer as this how we develop our relationship with God. Same with people. WE get to know them by interacting with them.
Our purpose in life as a Christian is to...

FIRST:
Love the Lord with all your heart mind and soul and equal to this is to the love other human the same. Genesis to Revelation these decree's over shadow the entire Bible. Love the Lord with all your heart mind and soul....by devoting-consecrating ones self to Jesus so we know HIS glory and will for our lives and then we can be such an effective witness for our Christ, Jesus.


DEVOTION to Jesus. Without such heartfelt devotion little will occur or be ineffective:



1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 (NKJV):

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Robert, you will develop a sub-conscience level of always praying. Yet even when talking with another, doing chores, ET....

To develop such a relationship with GOD that in an instant one would go willingly to a fiery furnace Daniel 3:23.



Pray for others

Feed the poor.

Be kind to your enemies.

Restore the brother or sister who is lost or struggling.

Fellowship.

Praise and worship our Lord.

Crucify the flesh.

Know ones gift to teach, heal, propecy ET. Your Ministry Jesus has blessed you with. Everyone has a ministry. and ministries.

Seek the Kingdom of Christ.

Be transformed by the renewing of your mind to the heart of Christ.

Constantly praying.

Put others first and above ourselves.

Don't worry about what we shall wear or eat.

Grow in the grace and knowledge of Lord Jesus Christ.

Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

==========================================
A little more:
Exodus 20:1-17 (NKJV)
The FIFTEEN Commandments:
 
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beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Calvinist want us to believe that God sends his only begotten Son into the world to die for some of the sins of the world, but not all of the sins of the world.

Does that make sense?

God sends his Son into the world to atone for the sins of the world then he blinds some so that they cannot believe.

Does that make sense?

Why would God who is all powerful, send his Son into the world and NOT atone for all of the sins of the world?

Why would God send his Son into the world to atone for the sins of the world and then hide it from some?

Nothing in the doctrine of a limited atonement makes sense.
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Tulip is the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ, Limited Atonement is part of it, you don't believe that, you are in unbelief to this day !
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Brother Ducky said:
The question is whether all can ask for it; in the sense of are they able to see the goodness and eternal value of asking without God changing their hearts beforehand.

AMR as often posted verses that indicate the inability of fallen man, on his own to come to Christ. While I have often asked for a free-will salvationist anthropology to explain why they would hold that a sinful man could go against his nature and come to Christ. Personally, I can not think of anything approaching that in Scripture. The closest thing I can think of is Joshua's "choose this day" speech, but most of the OT is the story of how well that worked out.
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Interesting question. Who can explain why some folks hear the word and decide it's not true ? I am not of the school of "God knew they wouldn't and couldn't." Anymore it's an issue of sticking with the Bible and understanding what it says. Some folks here a bit here and a bit there and based on that they discount the Bible. If everybody heard and believed and trusted in Christ and heard the correct saving scriptures, the problems would dissolve.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV - Romans 10:17 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV -


Romans 10:13 KJV - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Colossians 1:20 KJV - Ephesians 1:13 KJV -
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
John Calvin and many other damned people love Tulips
but I am not interested in Calvin's Subjected Opinions .
Maybe another time or times and a half a time.

Total Misanthropy.
Uncertain salvation.
Luck of the draw.
Irresistible damnation.
Persecution of the saints.

Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so
at the Restaurant at the End of the Galaxy.
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musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Brother Ducky said:
I fail to see what has to be reconciled.
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That's false. You do see the problem. Its been posted many times but never honestly answered.

If man is unable on his own to come to Christ, then the only way man can come to Christ is by God's enabling. That's Calvinism 101. The problem is, how that could be true and God also be just.

Fact: He condemns to the lake of fire those who do not come to Christ. We agree on that.

But if Calvinism is true, the fact that they do not come proves He did not enable them to come; had He, they would, irresistibly. That makes their not coming His choice for them, which makes His condemning them for not coming a lie. That in turn makes the God of Calvinism not the God of the Bible, Who cannot lie.
 
Crucible

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
Robert Pate said:
To believe TULIP is to believe that Jesus is a failure and is not Lord.
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It's the exact opposite actually- without Limited Atonement, you make God fallible.
This was the point which Calvin used in rejecting the idea that a person can lose their salvation.
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
rougueone said:
Robert, Same Thread, different title. Calvinist. Give it a break Robert. You have been on this tirade for months now.
I am questioning your own beliefs Robert. Are you ?
Click to expand...

Months? try YEARS! And no, Robert does not question his own beliefs. He is too busy making up and telling us what every one else believes to even care about the hypocrisy and contradictions of his own.
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
Originally Posted by OCTOBER23 View Post
I Forgive Hitler

Does God Concur ?
So did I.
-----------------------------
Does the Father concur? That's his to make.

You can't forgive Hitler, he did nothing to you
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Is it then a Bias Choice of who is to be saved or not regarding Calvinism?

Or is Judgement equal to all ?

Does it not Forgiveness require Repentance First or not ?
 
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