ECT The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are the same.

I

Interplanner

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
Of course, but that is about Jews too.

The SEED is Jesus Christ.
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To clarify GT, I think he means that Jews who curse the Seed would not be blessed, which is what Peter was saying about it all in Acts 3. The generation that saw Christ but rejected him would be extirpated--a type of disinheriting.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Interplanner said:
To clarify GT, I think he means that Jews who curse the Seed would not be blessed, which is what Peter was saying about it all in Acts 3. The generation that saw Christ but rejected him would be extirpated--a type of disinheriting.
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That is about everyone, though, however.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
That is about everyone, though, however.
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That's a bit harsh. Christ was not as concerned about the moment that rejected him as he was about 'this generation'--those alive during the apostle's preaching. They had some significant results.

Notice the generation-wide concern of Lk 23:28. Once you see that, it is more interesting to go back through all the 'this generation' declarations, because the documents we have as gospels are finalized over the next few years after the Res and read publically for that whole period, not just the people immediately around Jesus. It is the period that then ends in the zealot rebellion against Rome which was a dead end. The decimation of Judea in that event is really too horrible to imagine, but it was exactly what Christ said would happen.

NT eschatology is either about 1st century Judea or about the worldwide day of judgement yet to happen. Mixing the two times or locations is a complete mess.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Interplanner said:
That's a bit harsh. Christ was not as concerned about the moment that rejected him as he was about 'this generation'--those alive during the apostle's preaching. They had some significant results.

Notice the generation-wide concern of Lk 23:28. Once you see that, it is more interesting to go back through all the 'this generation' declarations, because the documents we have as gospels are finalized over the next few years after the Res and read publically for that whole period, not just the people immediately around Jesus. It is the period that then ends in the zealot rebellion against Rome which was a dead end. The decimation of Judea in that event is really too horrible to imagine, but it was exactly what Christ said would happen.

NT eschatology is either about 1st century Judea or about the worldwide day of judgement yet to happen. Mixing the two times or locations is a complete mess.
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I do not think that you are taking into account that ALL Jews without faith were cut off?


Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.
Luke 8:10
He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

John 12:40
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Romans 11:8
as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."
Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

Mark 4:12 so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"

Mark 8:17And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18"HAVING EYES, DO YOU NOT SEE? AND HAVING EARS, DO YOU NOT HEAR? And do you not remember,
 
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Luke 13:28 "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.


Do you understand that when Jesus came and started his earthly ministry Jews who did not have faith BEFORE he came were cut off?
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Matthew 8:12
But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Matthew 22:13
"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Matthew 25:30
And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
I do not think that you are taking into account that ALL Jews without faith were cut off?


Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.
Luke 8:10
He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

John 12:40
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Romans 11:8
as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."
Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

Mark 4:12 so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"

Mark 8:17And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18"HAVING EYES, DO YOU NOT SEE? AND HAVING EARS, DO YOU NOT HEAR? And do you not remember,
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OK, but the several thousand of Acts 3 was probably half of the initial burst. During Passover (the largest holiday of the year), Jerusalem had about 150K people present at that time. So it's population was about half that. 6K/75K is about 8%--not bad.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
Luke 13:28 "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

Do you understand that when Jesus came and started his earthly ministry Jews who did not have faith BEFORE he came were cut off?
Click to expand...



I don't think this verse is saying that; it and most of those you quoted are saying that if they don't respond to him, that will happen. Remember Mt 22's 'surely they will listen to my son.'
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
OK, so are there any verses in which the consequence is based on response to the Son, not what they did before?
I agree that there were both unbelievers and believers in Israel before; thus we have Mt 27's resurrection of saints, and Heb 11. But the generation that heard the apostles is very momentous, auspicious. The whole country is at stake. God is much more concerned about their response to the apostles than about the initial rejection of him in the Gospel events. Their teaching all through Judea is the 'last call.'
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Please drop the word kingdom, it has too much to do with nations and administrations. Wrong idea. Christ said so. Those who 'rule' will be servants. It is the 'reign.' The reign of God is indeed here, in the Gospel, and in its proclamation. You do not say about the 'reign' 'here it is or there it is.' It is not of this world. It is not like the kingdoms of this world.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Interplanner said:
Please drop the word kingdom, it has too much to do with nations and administrations. Wrong idea. Christ said so. Those who 'rule' will be servants. It is the 'reign.' The reign of God is indeed here, in the Gospel, and in its proclamation. You do not say about the 'reign' 'here it is or there it is.' It is not of this world. It is not like the kingdoms of this world.
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Lol - and then you woke up and found you do not run this forum; that it is not your literal, ur - kingdom :chuckle:
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
No, it's from the lexicon. It is from Roman admin again. It did not refer to the geographic area but to the period of a king's their rule. Things that TOL icons cannot convey.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Interplanner said:
Please drop the word kingdom, it has too much to do with nations and administrations. Wrong idea. Christ said so. Those who 'rule' will be servants. It is the 'reign.' The reign of God is indeed here, in the Gospel, and in its proclamation. You do not say about the 'reign' 'here it is or there it is.' It is not of this world. It is not like the kingdoms of this world.
Click to expand...

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
1Mind1Spirit said:
Neither is Paul.

I reckon yore daddy would be Tim LaHaye, the fellow who asserts Jesus was prophesying that John would out live all the other Apostles when all he did was tell Peter to mind his own business.

For all you pre trib rapturist's details, the only one that could prove your confusion true is not found in the book, that is, when did Paul's supposed dispensation begin?

Hmmmmm?
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They miss the fact that Peter and Paul were alive at the same time and had no disagreement concerning the one gospel of Christ.

LA
 
D

Danoh

New member
1Mind1Spirit said:
Neither is Paul.

I reckon yore daddy would be Tim LaHaye, the fellow who asserts Jesus was prophesying that John would out live all the other Apostles when all he did was tell Peter to mind his own business.

For all you pre trib rapturist's details, the only one that could prove your confusion true is not found in the book, that is, when did Paul's supposed dispensation begin?

Hmmmmm?
Click to expand...

Tim LaHaye is not only Acts 2 Dispensational Pentecostal but a sensationaling quack just like one finds in every other school of thought but one - Mid-Acts.

And yes, Jesus was basically saying "what's it too you."

Get your facts straight, fool, Prov. 26:5.
 
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