The Johannine Comma

[ClimateSanity]

Even Catholic scholars acknowledge that 1 John 5:7 is spurious.

1 John 5:7

No Syriac manuscript of any family — Peshito, Philoxenian, or Harklean — has the three witnesses; and their presence in the printed Syriac Gospels is due to translation from the Vulgate.

So too, the Coptic manuscripts — both Sahidic and Bohairic — have no trace of the disputed part, nor have the Ethiopic manuscripts which represent Greek influence through the medium of Coptic.

The Armenian manuscripts, which favour the reading of the Vulgate, are admitted to represent a Latin influence which dates from the twelfth century; early Armenian manuscripts are against the Latin reading.

Of the Itala or Old Latin manuscripts, only two have our present reading of the three witnesses: Codex Monacensis of the sixth or seventh century; and the Speculum, an eighth or ninth century manuscript which gives many quotations from the New Testament.

Even the Vulgate, in the majority of its earliest manuscripts, is without the passage in question. Witnesses to the canonicity are: the Bible of Theodulph (eighth century) in the National Library of Paris; Codex Cavensis (ninth century), the best representative of the Spanish type of text: Toletanus (tenth century); and the majority of Vulgate manuscripts after the twelfth century.

There was some dispute as to the canonicity of the three witnesses as early as the sixth century: for the preface to the Catholic Epistles in Codex Fuldensis (A.D. 541-546) complains about the omission of this passage from some of the Latin versions.

(newadvent.org/ Catholic Encyclopedia/ Epistles of St. John)
​

Could it be that the comma was removed from these texts? Could it be that the uncials and the Vulgate etc... Merely preserved them from earlier copies?

 

[jamie]

Could it be that the comma was removed from these texts? Could it be that the uncials and the Vulgate etc... Merely preserved them from earlier copies?

Could be that the Apostles' Creed has the Holy Spirit as Jesus' father?

Apostles' Creed

(1) I believe in God the Father Almighty;
(2) And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord;
(3) Who was born of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary;
(4) Crucified under Pontius Pilate and buried;
(5) The third day He rose again from the dead,
(6) He ascended into Heaven,
(7) Sitteth at the right hand of the Father,
(8) Whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
(9) And in the Holy Ghost,
(10) The Holy Church,
(11) The forgiveness of sins;
(12) The resurrection of the body.

(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01629a.htm)

 

[ClimateSanity]

Could be that the Apostles' Creed has the Holy Spirit as Jesus' father?

Apostles' Creed

(1) I believe in God the Father Almighty;
(2) And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord;
(3) Who was born of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary;
(4) Crucified under Pontius Pilate and buried;
(5) The third day He rose again from the dead,
(6) He ascended into Heaven,
(7) Sitteth at the right hand of the Father,
(8) Whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
(9) And in the Holy Ghost,
(10) The Holy Church,
(11) The forgiveness of sins;
(12) The resurrection of the body.

(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01629a.htm)

That all depends on the meaning you pour into Father.

 

[jamie]

That all depends on the meaning you pour into Father.

Luke says the Highest is Jesus' father. So the Father must be the essence of the Holy Spirit.

He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest...
(Luke 1:32)​

There is only one Most High God and he caused Mary to bear him a Son. He did this through the power of his Spirit, a holy manifestation of the Father's power.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Luke says the Highest is Jesus' father. So the Father must be the essence of the Holy Spirit.

He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest...
(Luke 1:32)​

There is only one Most High God and he caused Mary to bear him a Son. He did this through the power of his Spirit, a holy manifestation of the Father's power.

The Father, Son and Spirit all share the same essence, but you draw wrong conclusions from that. They all speak and relate to each other.. They cannot all be the same person therefore.

 

[jamie]

The Father, Son and Spirit all share the same essence, but you draw wrong conclusions from that. They all speak and relate to each other.. They cannot all be the same person therefore.

Paul says God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”

Does the Holy Spirit also have the Spirit of God's Son?

 

[ClimateSanity]

Paul says God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”

Does the Holy Spirit also have the Spirit of God's Son?

He has the essence of Gods son....deity. The son and father are mere titles showing relationship. For the record, the Spirit of God's Son is the Holy Spirit.

 

[jamie]

He has the essence of Gods son....deity. The son and father are mere titles showing relationship. For the record, the Spirit of God's Son is the Holy Spirit.

If the Spirit of God's Son is the Holy Spirit then that just makes two Spirit persons, the Father and the Son.

 

[ClimateSanity]

If the Spirit of God's Son is the Holy Spirit then that just makes two Spirit persons, the Father and the Son.

The Holy Spirit is Spirit. I have no idea what you mean by spirit persons. All three are persons and all three have spirit. I have no idea where you get two. By the way, Christ is the only one of the three who is still part human. His humanity has the Spirit. The Father and the Spirit are spirit in and of themselves.

 

[jamie]

The Father and the Spirit are spirit in and of themselves.

Paul said, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (Romans 8:14)

Are we led by the Spirit of God or by the Holy Spirit if they are different persons? Which?

 

[Nick M]

Paul reasoned from the scriptures that Jesus was the Christ, without having the gospel of John.

 

[JJ84]

Yet I John 5:7 was quoted by Cyprian in 250 AD long before the current Oldest and best manuscript argument that is often given. And all one needs to remember is that 250 AD was just before the arian controversy in Christianity.

 

[Tambora]

Yet I John 5:7 was quoted by Cyprian in 250 AD long before the current Oldest and best manuscript argument that is often given. And all one needs to remember is that 250 AD was just before the arian controversy in Christianity.

Yes.

Here is the quote:

The Lord says, 'I and the Father are one'; and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, ‘and these three are one.’ - Cyprian, De Catholicae Ecclesiae Unitate 6

 

[Flaminggg]

Johannine Comma - Because the People Witnessed Jonah go into the Ocean, but did he wake up?

(3/8/2016 is 57 days from the Antichrist's Lifespan of 12210 Days, according to Eastern Standard Time, not according to Malaysian Time, you do not know as of yet, what is to be done, even if it is only hours away)

I JOHN 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
I JOHN 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1. Unforgivable Sin against God is the "Abomination of Desolation" (Matt. 12:32, Matt. 24:15, Jesus does not pay for their sin)
2. Blasphemy Against the Son of Man is the "Son of Perdition" (Matt. 12:23, John 12:17, the law is revealed as a teaching of divorce between man and god)

1 John 5:7-8 is addressing the open rebuke of the Gospel's Program at two levels. Blasphemy of "Babylon the Great" is a Blasphemy of Jesus because, God must cut Jesus off in favor of his "Express Image/Antichrist" for 150 days, to complete the measurement of "Joseph the Blessing", that is given in revelation. ... ... ... ... beyond this, God must eliminate all human life on earth that does not qualify to be judged of "Joseph the Blessing".

We need to view 1 John 5:7-8 a different way ... ... ... ... Luke 9:32, the "Two Witnesses" are standing at the right hand of God, and Peter/Aaron is resisting them, promoting his suicide at the "Three Days of Darkness" ... ... ... ... Luke 9:33, Jesus/Moses/Elijah those three are one, and immediately after that the Holy Spirit reveals herself as a cloud of Spirit/Water/Blood. 1 John 5:7-8 is an accurate statement of the gospel's position, so it does not need to be corrected.

True, Flight 370 is 730 days old as of today, on March 7, 2016. However, God gives more value the measurement of the Antichrist's Lifespan because he is a measurement of Joseph, Jesus began with Moses, and only completes at the end of time. As of right now, no wreckage from Flight 370 has ever been found, that is a statement only the Antichrist himself is capable of making, but we don't know who he is, but, I believe the subject is closed, you will never find those people or that plane. Love and Blessings (we have a nightly walk to City Hall tonight, so you maybe punished severely for using the Sniper Rifle we talked about, keep watch).