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Jefferson said, "Both verses together show that living a godly life enhances your effectiveness when you share the gospel with people but it also produces persecution from those who reject your testimony."
Yes. Although I do not know what you do, as for me it brings persecution mostly. So when the point was made that godly acts (of any kind), usually bring out the nasty in the majority, I say that from my own experience. Yours may be different.
Jefferson, "I'm not asking God to do anything of the sort. I'm simply pointing out that He doesn't."
The devil wanted Jesus to do something specific, so that He could prove He was the Messiah. Jesus was doing plenty of other things and yet that was not enough for the devil. To me, it is the same here. Bob hasn't checked out all the claims of reported miracles, but he does flipantly say God never does this particular thing, so that makes the whole thing concerning miracles overwith.
If the car tire was reported to have been completely restored, Bob would not believe it (imo). And so goes the faith, expectation and knowing that God can do more than what they ask or think, in that congregation.
Jefferson responding to, "tell me again, what good is going to come out of your belief (no more miracles)? - It will produce a closer relationship with God. I can't tell you the number of Christians I have known who have become bitter at God because He didn't give them their miracle. If they had been biblically taught that we don't live in the dispensation of miracles on demand their tribulation would have produced patience leading to godliness instead of bitterness. I've seen the same thing with people who attend Charismatic denominations. When they are never able to learn how to speak in tongues they think God doesn't love them as much as the other believers or that maybe they're not even saved. It's just ridiculous. Bad theology produces a bad relationship with God."
Stated before: It doesn't take long to realize in this walk, that every request is not granted by God, yet this does not prove that we cannot ask or that we should not ask. If these people had been lead to believe that every thing we asked for would come to pass, they were certainly out of it, and so was the person teaching them. But that doesn't mean that we scrap the whole thing just because there are some who teach bad doctrine out there, no, it only proves that we need to be more balanced with it.
And balanced is not saying God does not do miracles anymore. That is swinging extreme in the other direction.
Jefferson asks, "Is that what the verse says power produces? No. It says the aspect of Christ likeness that power produces in us is the aspects of patience and longsuffering. Sorry, but the verse says what it says. Paul could have added "miracles" on to that short list but he didn't. Why not?"
You cannot say everything about God or His Holy Spirit in a couple of verses. That's why not. So what do you do? You do a study of all that is revealed about the Spirit and then you answer the question, what kind of power can you expect from the Spirit? Is it limited to my behavior (just the fruit list), or can God do through me more than what I can ask or think? Answer: He can do more, He is not in a box though people like Bob have been trying to get Him in there for 2,000 years.
Jefferson ends, "Corinthians was written near the very beginning of the dispensation of grace before miracles started fading away. Coincidence?"
As Martin stated, the people that hold onto this position (no more miracles), have only one verse to site out of Corinthians. They build the entire doctrine from it and then persecute all reports about anything that's contrary to it.
While we are at it, I notice that the other show about Doubletree canceling the homo event has no mention of the call from Ray who said He had been very close to God these past weeks and the God was certainly telling Him things. To which Bob ended the show saying that anytime a person says God told them so, they should be persecuted also. I'd like to comment about that from Corinthians but the blog over there has not even mentioned this part of that broadcast. Why is that Jefferson, do you know why?
Yes. Although I do not know what you do, as for me it brings persecution mostly. So when the point was made that godly acts (of any kind), usually bring out the nasty in the majority, I say that from my own experience. Yours may be different.
Jefferson, "I'm not asking God to do anything of the sort. I'm simply pointing out that He doesn't."
The devil wanted Jesus to do something specific, so that He could prove He was the Messiah. Jesus was doing plenty of other things and yet that was not enough for the devil. To me, it is the same here. Bob hasn't checked out all the claims of reported miracles, but he does flipantly say God never does this particular thing, so that makes the whole thing concerning miracles overwith.
If the car tire was reported to have been completely restored, Bob would not believe it (imo). And so goes the faith, expectation and knowing that God can do more than what they ask or think, in that congregation.
Jefferson responding to, "tell me again, what good is going to come out of your belief (no more miracles)? - It will produce a closer relationship with God. I can't tell you the number of Christians I have known who have become bitter at God because He didn't give them their miracle. If they had been biblically taught that we don't live in the dispensation of miracles on demand their tribulation would have produced patience leading to godliness instead of bitterness. I've seen the same thing with people who attend Charismatic denominations. When they are never able to learn how to speak in tongues they think God doesn't love them as much as the other believers or that maybe they're not even saved. It's just ridiculous. Bad theology produces a bad relationship with God."
Stated before: It doesn't take long to realize in this walk, that every request is not granted by God, yet this does not prove that we cannot ask or that we should not ask. If these people had been lead to believe that every thing we asked for would come to pass, they were certainly out of it, and so was the person teaching them. But that doesn't mean that we scrap the whole thing just because there are some who teach bad doctrine out there, no, it only proves that we need to be more balanced with it.
And balanced is not saying God does not do miracles anymore. That is swinging extreme in the other direction.
Jefferson asks, "Is that what the verse says power produces? No. It says the aspect of Christ likeness that power produces in us is the aspects of patience and longsuffering. Sorry, but the verse says what it says. Paul could have added "miracles" on to that short list but he didn't. Why not?"
You cannot say everything about God or His Holy Spirit in a couple of verses. That's why not. So what do you do? You do a study of all that is revealed about the Spirit and then you answer the question, what kind of power can you expect from the Spirit? Is it limited to my behavior (just the fruit list), or can God do through me more than what I can ask or think? Answer: He can do more, He is not in a box though people like Bob have been trying to get Him in there for 2,000 years.
Jefferson ends, "Corinthians was written near the very beginning of the dispensation of grace before miracles started fading away. Coincidence?"
As Martin stated, the people that hold onto this position (no more miracles), have only one verse to site out of Corinthians. They build the entire doctrine from it and then persecute all reports about anything that's contrary to it.
While we are at it, I notice that the other show about Doubletree canceling the homo event has no mention of the call from Ray who said He had been very close to God these past weeks and the God was certainly telling Him things. To which Bob ended the show saying that anytime a person says God told them so, they should be persecuted also. I'd like to comment about that from Corinthians but the blog over there has not even mentioned this part of that broadcast. Why is that Jefferson, do you know why?
