The Gospel Verses Predestination

[Ask Mr. Religion]

In the light of that we will examine Romans 8:30.

We were predestinated "In Christ" as was the whole world. Every human being on this earth is called by the Holy Spirit to come to Christ, Some come, some don't. Those that do come to Christ are justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and will be glorified. Those that don't are the lost.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.​

The passage actually states that those predestined were also called, Robert. Those called "He also justified" and "He also glorified". It is clear from the passage "whom He called, these He also justified" and "whom He justified, these He also glorified". You simply cannot make this mean every human being is called, else every human being would be also justified and glorified, per the verse before us.

Follow the connective phrases in the passage:

Moreover whom He predestined,

these He also called; <--who were called? whom He predestined.​

whom He called,​

these He also justified; and <--who were justified? whom he called.​

whom He justified,​

these He also glorified. <--who were glorified? whom He justified.​

There is nothing in the passage that allows for exceptions to be made, as in your "some come, some don't". Romans 8:30 is plainly stating that each and every one who were called, are justified, and are glorified.

Please do justice to Romans 8:30 by not trying to make it carry more exegetical freight than what is actually written. It does not read:

Moreover whom He predestined, some He also called; whom He called, He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.​

To say that man does not have a free will is really a very stupid statement.

Who is actually making this statement, Robert? Until you actually define what you mean by "free will", you seem to be building a straw man here.

I certainly do not deny free will. I have actually defined what I mean by the term. I have asked you twice to define your terms, too.

AMR

 

[beloved57]

Calvinism is an attempt to get around the Gospel and justification by faith and justification by Christ. It is another Gospel and is a false Gospel. There is no salvation outside of Christ, Colossians 1:14-19. Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Making predestination worthless.

You teach sinners Christ died for are still lost. Thats a denial that Christ Blood saves them it was shed for.

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[Robert Pate]

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.​

The passage actually states that those predestined were also called, Robert. Those called "He also justified" and "He also glorified". It is clear from the passage "whom He called, these He also justified" and "whom He justified, these He also glorified". You simply cannot make this mean every human being is called, else every human being would be also justified and glorified, per the verse before us.

Follow the connective phrases in the passage:

Moreover whom He predestined,

these He also called; <--who were called? whom He predestined.​

whom He called,​

these He also justified; and <--who were justified? whom he called.​

whom He justified,​

these He also glorified. <--who were glorified? whom He justified.​

There is nothing in the passage that allows for exceptions to be made, as in your "some come, some don't". Romans 8:30 is plainly stating that each and every one who were called, are justified, and are glorified.

Please do justice to Romans 8:30 by not trying to make it carry more exegetical freight than what is actually written. It does not read:

Moreover whom He predestined, some He also called; whom He called, He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.​

Who is actually making this statement, Robert? Until you actually define what you mean by "free will", you seem to be building a straw man here.

I certainly do not deny free will. I have actually defined what I mean by the term. I have asked you twice to define your terms, too.

AMR

As long as you continue to deny that Jesus is the savior of the WHOLE WORLD, you will remain in darkness, John 12:47, plus many other scriptures.

As long as you continue to deny that salvation has been provided for everyone, you will remain in darkness, Hebrews 2:9, plus many other scriptures.

It is not good to build a theology on one scripture such as Romans 8:30. The whole New Testament teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8 plus many other scriptures.

All of the prophets and the apostles were predestinated by God for the sole purpose of making known to the world the purpose of his Son Jesus Christ. THERE IS NO PREDESTINATION WITHOUT A PURPOSE. If Calvinist were preaching the Gospel then it might be different, unfortunately most Calvinist don't know what the Gospel is, much less preach it.

You are not able to answer this question. If Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19, then why does anyone need to be predestinated?

 

[beloved57]

As long as you continue to deny that Jesus is the savior of the WHOLE WORLD, you will remain in darkness, John 12:47, plus many other scriptures.

As long as you continue to deny that salvation has been provided for everyone, you will remain in darkness, Hebrews 2:9, plus many other scriptures.

It is not good to build a theology on one scripture such as Romans 8:30. The whole New Testament teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8 plus many other scriptures.

All of the prophets and the apostles were predestinated by God for the sole purpose of making known to the world the purpose of his Son Jesus Christ. THERE IS NO PREDESTINATION WITHOUT A PURPOSE. If Calvinist were preaching the Gospel then it might be different, unfortunately most Calvinist don't know what the Gospel is, much less preach it.

You are not able to answer this question. If Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19, then why does anyone need to be predestinated?

You continue to deny the Saving Efficacy of Christ Blood.

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[Robert Pate]

You continue to deny the Saving Efficacy of Christ Blood.

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No I don't. I believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the world, 2 Corinthians 5:19. I also believe that salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

If anyone is in denial of the Saving Efficacy of Christ Blood it is you.

 

[beloved57]

No I don't. I believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the world, 2 Corinthians 5:19. I also believe that salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

If anyone is in denial of the Saving Efficacy of Christ Blood it is you.

Your teachings undermine the Gospel, they deny the saving success of the Person and Work Of Jesus Christ as Saviour !

 

[beloved57]

pate

No I don't.

Yes you do. Dont you believe sinners Christ died for will nevertheless be lost ? Yes or No ?

 

[MennoSota]

.

 

[Robert Pate]

pate



Yes you do. Dont you believe sinners Christ died for will nevertheless be lost ? Yes or No ?

Not everyone wants to be saved. What makes you think that God is going to take people to heaven that don't want to be there?

 

[Robert Pate]

.

According to scripture salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

Your problem and the problem with most Calvinist is that you don't believe the Bible. You would rather believe the heretic John Calvin.

Your Calvinist God is a devisive and is a villain.

 

[MennoSota]

According to scripture salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

Your problem and the problem with most Calvinist is that you don't believe the Bible. You would rather believe the heretic John Calvin.

Your Calvinist God is a devisive and is a villain.

.

 

[beloved57]

Not everyone wants to be saved. What makes you think that God is going to take people to heaven that don't want to be there?

There you go. You undermine the blood of Christ and deny its Saving Efficacy.

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[beloved57]

According to scripture salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

Your problem and the problem with most Calvinist is that you don't believe the Bible. You would rather believe the heretic John Calvin.

Your Calvinist God is a devisive and is a villain.

Again you deny that Christ death alone saved all for whom He tasted death for Heb 2:9

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[Robert Pate]

Again you deny that Christ death alone saved all for whom He tasted death for Heb 2:9

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God does no create robots. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED" Romans 10:13.

How much plainer can it be.

 

[Robert Pate]

.

The word "predestination" only appears in the New Testament 4 times. None of the 4 words are related to being predestinated to eternal life. It does not appear in the Old Testament at all, simply because in the Old Testament they were justified by faith, same as the New Testament.

 

[beloved57]

God does no create robots. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED" Romans 10:13.

How much plainer can it be.

Its very dishonoring to Christ and His precious Blood to teach that He died for people that will be lost !

 

[MennoSota]

God does no create robots. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED" Romans 10:13.

How much plainer can it be.

Only the elect will call on the Lord because God made them alive in Christ.
You ignore Romans 3 at your peril.
Romans 3:3-28
[3]True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they were unfaithful, does that mean God will be unfaithful?
[4]Of course not! Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say about him, “You will be proved right in what you say, and you will win your case in court.”
[5]“But,” some might say, “our sinfulness serves a good purpose, for it helps people see how righteous God is. Isn’t it unfair, then, for him to punish us?” (This is merely a human point of view.)
[6]Of course not! If God were not entirely fair, how would he be qualified to judge the world?
[7]“But,” someone might still argue, “how can God condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”
[8]And some people even slander us by claiming that we say, “The more we sin, the better it is!” Those who say such things deserve to be condemned.
[9]Well then, should we conclude that we Jews are better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
[10]As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous— not even one.
[11]No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God.
[12]All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one.”
[13]“Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave. Their tongues are filled with lies.” “Snake venom drips from their lips.”
[14]“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
[15]“They rush to commit murder.
[16]Destruction and misery always follow them.
[17]They don’t know where to find peace.”
[18]“They have no fear of God at all.”
[19]Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.
[20]For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.
[21]But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago.
[22]We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
[23]For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.
[24]Yet God freely and graciously declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.
[25]For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past,
[26]for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
[27]Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith.
[28]So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

 

[Robert Pate]

Only the elect will call on the Lord because God made them alive in Christ.
You ignore Romans 3 at your peril.
Romans 3:3-28
[3]True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they were unfaithful, does that mean God will be unfaithful?
[4]Of course not! Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say about him, “You will be proved right in what you say, and you will win your case in court.”
[5]“But,” some might say, “our sinfulness serves a good purpose, for it helps people see how righteous God is. Isn’t it unfair, then, for him to punish us?” (This is merely a human point of view.)
[6]Of course not! If God were not entirely fair, how would he be qualified to judge the world?
[7]“But,” someone might still argue, “how can God condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”
[8]And some people even slander us by claiming that we say, “The more we sin, the better it is!” Those who say such things deserve to be condemned.
[9]Well then, should we conclude that we Jews are better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
[10]As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous— not even one.
[11]No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God.
[12]All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one.”
[13]“Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave. Their tongues are filled with lies.” “Snake venom drips from their lips.”
[14]“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
[15]“They rush to commit murder.
[16]Destruction and misery always follow them.
[17]They don’t know where to find peace.”
[18]“They have no fear of God at all.”
[19]Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.
[20]For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.
[21]But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago.
[22]We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
[23]For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.
[24]Yet God freely and graciously declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.
[25]For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past,
[26]for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
[27]Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith.
[28]So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

All Calvinist are lost because of their negative view of the nature and character of God and his Son Jesus Christ.

To believe that God predestinates people to hell is a terrible thing to believe about God and is blaspheme. And then to believe that Jesus only atoned for some sins and not all sins is also blaspheme. We are saved and justified by faith, faith in God and faith in Jesus. It is not possible to believe the things that Calvinist believe about God and his Son Jesus Christ and be saved. It is just not going to happen. Unfortunately you will have to find that out in the judgment.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

As long as you continue to deny that Jesus is the savior of the WHOLE WORLD, you will remain in darkness, John 12:47, plus many other scriptures.

As long as you continue to deny that salvation has been provided for everyone, you will remain in darkness, Hebrews 2:9, plus many other scriptures.

It is not good to build a theology on one scripture such as Romans 8:30. The whole New Testament teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8 plus many other scriptures.

All of the prophets and the apostles were predestinated by God for the sole purpose of making known to the world the purpose of his Son Jesus Christ. THERE IS NO PREDESTINATION WITHOUT A PURPOSE. If Calvinist were preaching the Gospel then it might be different, unfortunately most Calvinist don't know what the Gospel is, much less preach it.

You are not able to answer this question. If Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19, then why does anyone need to be predestinated?

Well, I thought I would make an effort to engage you, Robert, in hopes you had changed your ways. Clearly, it is not going to happen. You continue to evade the clearly made points in responses, never directly engaging them substantively, moving the goal posts and hoping no one will notice. I have answered all your usual Scripture appeals several times in the past. Just teeing them up all over again as if you have not been answered does not alter the facts. :AMR:

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

Well, I thought I would make an effort to engage you, Robert, in hopes you had changed your ways. Clearly, it is not going to happen. You continue to evade the clearly made points in responses, never directly engaging them substantively, moving the goal posts and hoping no one will notice. I have answered all your usual Scripture appeals several times in the past. Just teeing them up all over again as if you have not been answered does not alter the facts. :AMR:

AMR

I am resting in Christ and his Gospel, Hebrews 4:10. Why should I change? You want me to rest and trust in the words of a heretic from the 1500's.

What you believe about God and his Son Jesus Christ is what will probably condemn you to hell. You believe that God is some sort of a tyrant that delights in sending people to hell for no reason, other than that is what he does. And then you don't believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the world. It appears to me that you have 0 faith in Christ and his Gospel. The God that you believe in is not the God of the Bible, instead it is the God of the heretic John Calvin.