The Gospel and Justification

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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Notice that I didn't say, "The Gospel and Justification (by Faith").

This may come as a shock to some of you, but faith does not justify. Jesus Christ is the justifier, not our faith, Romans 3:26. The reason that we are justified by faith is because it is our faith that makes the Gospel ours. Faith takes a hold of the Gospel and makes it ours. When we declare that we are saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus, the Gospel becomes ours and God declares that we are just. All is based upon the righteousness of Christ.

No one will be saved that has not been justified.

To be justified means to be MADE right with God. We do not BECOME right with God. We are MADE right with God.

"For as by one man's disobedience many were MADE sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be MADE righteous" Romans 5:19.

Catholics and other holiness religions believe that we BECOME righteous by our obedience to the law or by our religion. It is not possible for sinners to become righteous. We are born into sin, Psalm 51:5. But if we are Christians we don't die in our sins, we die in Christ.

Justification and Reconciliation are related words. No one will be reconciled to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. that has not been justified. How are we justified? We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. Jesus in our name and on our behalf fulfills God's Holy Law. Jesus in our name and on our behalf atones for our sins, 1 John 2:2. When we embrace what Jesus has done for us as our only means of salvation, God pronounces that we are justified and gives us his Holy Spirit. The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is that God must see us as justified "In Christ".

Catholicism does not justify. Calvinism does not justify. If you want to be justified you will have to trust in the work and person of Jesus Christ, plus nothing. There is no room in the Gospel for religion. It is not Jesus Christ plus your religion. It is Jesus Christ and his Gospel plus nothing.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
genuineoriginal said:

Romans 5:1
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:​


James 2:24
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

Click to expand...

No one is justified by faith, unless Christ justifies them first.
 
Prizebeatz1

Prizebeatz1

New member
This sounds to me like a bunch of pretending. It doesn't do any good if we are still left feeling worthless about ourselves. We can't hide from the feeling of being unworthy and then try to rationalize it away from our awareness. It's hovering in the background haunting everything we do and then it seeps out toward the world around us as the personality unconsciously projects it away from itself. It shows up in our desire to diminish God. We place terms and conditions on what is unconditional. We limit what is boundless, we project time into what is timeless.

The devil devalues. We are identified with this devil and we are not even aware of it. The adversary does not want us to know any of this. Underneath the belief in our own worthlessness is the fear of facing the infinity and eternity of what we take to be emptiness within. We've justified keeping our distance from this emptiness not knowing we are promoting disconnection from God and disconnection from the eternal and infinite part of us. Our intentions are good so God forgives us for we know not what we do.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
genuineoriginal said:
You have the order backwards.
We are justified by Christ because of our faith and works.

Christ will not justify anyone without faith and works.
Click to expand...

No, you are the one that has it backwards.

We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. Romans 3:26 refers to Christ as being the justifier. Before you can be justified by faith God must see you "In Christ".
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Prizebeatz1 said:
This sounds to me like a bunch of pretending. It doesn't do any good if we are still left feeling worthless about ourselves. We can't hide from the feeling of being unworthy and then try to rationalize it away from our awareness. It's hovering in the background haunting everything we do and then it seeps out toward the world around us as the personality unconsciously projects it away from itself. It shows up in our desire to diminish God. We place terms and conditions on what is unconditional. We limit what is boundless, we project time into what is timeless.

The devil devalues. We are identified with this devil and we are not even aware of it. The adversary does not want us to know any of this. Underneath the belief in our own worthlessness is the fear of facing the infinity and eternity of what we take to be emptiness within. We've justified keeping our distance from this emptiness not knowing we are promoting disconnection from God and disconnection from the eternal and infinite part of us. Our intentions are good so God forgives us for we know not what we do.
Click to expand...


You are trying to spiritualize everything.

"There is no forgivness of sin without the shedding of blood" Hebrews 9:22.

Be thankful that it is not your blood.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
Robert Pate said:
No, you are the one that has it backwards.

We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. Romans 3:26 refers to Christ as being the justifier. Before you can be justified by faith God must see you "In Christ".
Click to expand...

God will never see you as being "in Christ" unless you are first justified by Jesus because of your faith.

Here is Jesus justifying someone:

Luke 7:50
50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.​


Here is Jesus looking for people to justify:

Luke 18:8
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?​

 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
genuineoriginal said:
God will never see you as being "in Christ" unless you are first justified by Jesus because of your faith.

Here is Jesus justifying someone:

Luke 7:50
50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.​


Here is Jesus looking for people to justify:

Luke 18:8
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?​

Click to expand...


No one can be justified without the Gospel.

In the Gospel Jesus justifies the ungodly Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now be justified by faith. Without Christ there is no justification.
 
Prizebeatz1

Prizebeatz1

New member
Robert Pate said:
You are trying to spiritualize everything.

"There is no forgivness of sin without the shedding of blood" Hebrews 9:22.

Be thankful that it is not your blood.
Click to expand...

Why should we hang on to old beliefs that don't work? It does little good trying to appease an angry god with a blood sacrifice. The idea that a man could become a god as the emperors of Rome has little merit either. Some of us have done their homework and will not hesitate to spot what is fake and proceed to crush the head of the serpent. The eternal and infinite divinity within the soul burns through what is false because it is the only thing that is real.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

New member
Prizebeatz1 said:
Why should we hang on to old beliefs that don't work?
Click to expand...
Truth is truth, and does not---cannot---change in its essence, any more than can the God who revealed it.

It does little good trying to appease an angry god with a blood sacrifice.
Click to expand...
Addressed here.

The idea that a man could become a god as the emperors of Rome has little merit either.
Click to expand...

In fact, the Christian doctrine is that God took on a human nature, the opposite of your description above. For example, see this.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Prizebeatz1 said:
Why should we hang on to old beliefs that don't work? It does little good trying to appease an angry god with a blood sacrifice. The idea that a man could become a god as the emperors of Rome has little merit either. Some of us have done their homework and will not hesitate to spot what is fake and proceed to crush the head of the serpent. The eternal and infinite divinity within the soul burns through what is false because it is the only thing that is real.
Click to expand...


Christ shedding his blood for our sins and the sins of the world is what you call... "Old beliefs that don't work?"
 
Prizebeatz1

Prizebeatz1

New member
Cruciform said:
Truth is truth, and does not---cannot---change in its essence, any more than can the God who revealed it.


Addressed here.



In fact, the Christian doctrine is that God took on a human nature, the opposite of your description above. For example, see this.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
Click to expand...


Yes. This is very close to the truth but a part of me detects that it has been twisted through the ages like a game of Chinese whispers. The doctrine that God took on a human nature is the doctrine that WE too are a part of God taking on a human nature. We are equally divine as Jesus. The story is about OUR collective divinity, not just about the divinity of Jesus. The story of Jesus points to the infinite and eternal part of us. The higher meaning and more accurate interpretation of the scriptures has been buried and lost in favor of something easier for the masses to digest. We like the low-hanging fruit if you will because it's easy and convenient.

I have touched the part of me that is one with salvation and heaven and I know for a fact that it is not only in me, but in every one else too. There is no doubt about it. I look at the story of Jesus and I'm smacking myself for not having seen this before. That is what the story is trying to tell us but we don't believe it out of fear of making the church wrong. I sometimes hate myself for being so foolish to have missed these critical points. The true meaning of the Gospels has been distorted through the centuries for political gain and for the profit of enterprise. It's profitable for people not to know about their infinite divinity and eternal self-worth. The traditional interpretation of the New Testament omits the most important part of us. The church will discourage people away from the soul saying it is a part of us but we are not a part of it. Where does it say that? I think most of them just don't know any better. It's an injustice to turn people away from the soul because it is our connection to what is infinite and eternal. Without it no one can feel good enough about themselves and humanity is lost. This becomes a social problem as can be seen in the history of the world.

The whole interpretation that we are worthless in need of a savior is a big misunderstanding. It's the opposite. Salvation is already present in the soul right here and right now. We have fallen like the first angel in heaven and have bought into the idea that we are separate from God when that is in fact an impossibility. God is everywhere but as we get older we tend to think God is everywhere except within us. We left the proverbial Garden of Eden which was our natural child-like state of innocence and then we bit from the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. We think we can judge everything and this is the temptation. We do not quit biting of that fruit. When is it going to end? How do we know when we have taken things too far? The enemy doesn't want us to notice anything is wrong because it's secret weapon is stealth. We need to wake up and see this instead of falling victim to being frogs in water with the temperature slowly rising. We know something is wrong but we don't know what. We feel something is missing but few know that something is the soul.

My conscience will not allow me to keep this information to myself. People need to know about the divinity in their souls. This is the source of our self-worth. It is not okay to live without being able to feel this self-worth. The church is going to try to justify alienation from the soul because it's more important for them to control people. Yet what profits a man if they gain the whole world yet forfeit their own soul?
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

New member
Prizebeatz1 said:
Yes. This is very close to the truth but a part of me detects that it has been twisted through the ages like a game of Chinese whispers.
Click to expand...
Can you provide any documentary proof that this is in fact the case?

While I could engage with your comments at several points, I'm simply going to highly recommend the following well-informed text:


51-wQRmzyDL._AC_UL320_SR208,320_.jpg


Bowman & Komoszewski, PUTTING JESUS IN HIS PLACE: The Case for the Deity of Christ (Kregel, 2007)​


Be well, and God bless.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Notice that I didn't say, "The Gospel and Justification (by Faith").

This may come as a shock to some of you, but faith does not justify. Jesus Christ is the justifier, not our faith, Romans 3:26. The reason that we are justified by faith is because it is our faith that makes the Gospel ours. Faith takes a hold of the Gospel and makes it ours. When we declare that we are saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus, the Gospel becomes ours and God declares that we are just. All is based upon the righteousness of Christ.

No one will be saved that has not been justified.

To be justified means to be MADE right with God. We do not BECOME right with God. We are MADE right with God.

"For as by one man's disobedience many were MADE sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be MADE righteous" Romans 5:19.

Catholics and other holiness religions believe that we BECOME righteous by our obedience to the law or by our religion. It is not possible for sinners to become righteous. We are born into sin, Psalm 51:5. But if we are Christians we don't die in our sins, we die in Christ.

Justification and Reconciliation are related words. No one will be reconciled to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. that has not been justified. How are we justified? We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. Jesus in our name and on our behalf fulfills God's Holy Law. Jesus in our name and on our behalf atones for our sins, 1 John 2:2. When we embrace what Jesus has done for us as our only means of salvation, God pronounces that we are justified and gives us his Holy Spirit. The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is that God must see us as justified "In Christ".

Catholicism does not justify. Calvinism does not justify. If you want to be justified you will have to trust in the work and person of Jesus Christ, plus nothing. There is no room in the Gospel for religion. It is not Jesus Christ plus your religion. It is Jesus Christ and his Gospel plus nothing.
Click to expand...

Those like yourself who preach a salvation by works, by what a person does, are preaching a false gospel !
 
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