The Ever Present Problem of Atheism (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
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Its attractivenesss is the reason you are blind, Freak.
As I have explained before, Christianity offers such an attractive message, that many are willing to believe it. However, wishfull thinking often distords someone's interpretation of reality. Thank you, Freak, for proving that point.
Love is an emotion, and is never objective.
No. Since it doesn't, there is no attractiveness in it and therefore it can be much more objective. Also, since "wishfull thinking" isn't involved, it doesn't distort reality as much as say Christianity.
Really? On what assumptions do you base that the bible is correct? Surely, you do think that my assumptions about the real world are true? If not, then what do you think?
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Your "real world" is clouded by what satan would have you believe. You don't even know what you're saying half the time. You live in darkness.....but you can't see it for what it really is because of satan's grip. You may think that your ideas make sense or that your logic is flawless but, again, you are under satan's spell. You don't know any better. Only the blood of Jesus can set you free.
LightSon
New member
I disagree. Your sentiments are reflected in our culture yes, but true love is a choice. Love is a conscious decision to put the needs of another ahead of one's own personal needs or comfort.
Jesus said, (John 15:13) "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
Love is seen here being willing to act. Measuring such an act is more objective, wouldn't you agree?
Freak
New member
Try making some sense next time you post. You, scientific religious nuts are something.
You're closer then I thought. Email me and we'll talk about you surrendering your life to Christ.
You're a sad man, a very sad man. God's love for you Shima is objective. Would you like to experience it?
You scientific religious zealots are a confused bunch. The Scriptures are true for they stem from a true God.
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Zakath
Resident Atheist
Lightson,
It's often been said about our language that the shorter the word, the more difficult it is to pin down its exact meaning. I think that "love" in English is a very broad word. Both you and Shima are merely arguing differing preferred meanings for the same word.
It's often been said about our language that the shorter the word, the more difficult it is to pin down its exact meaning. I think that "love" in English is a very broad word. Both you and Shima are merely arguing differing preferred meanings for the same word.
LightSon
New member
Alright Zak, I concede to your point.
When I said "I disagree", I should have said, "Yes, but my definition of love purports to be more objective". I would further argue that more objectivity provides for greater testability which implies greater functionality.
Nevertheless, Shima is certainly entitled to define love as he sees fit. My definition, while rooted in my scriptures, seeks to differentiate between the hazy, amorphous feeling called love (which is often lust driven), and a choice to prefer another to oneself. My view makes an attempt to break down feelings and thoughts, so that motives and choices can be better scrutinized.
When I said "I disagree", I should have said, "Yes, but my definition of love purports to be more objective". I would further argue that more objectivity provides for greater testability which implies greater functionality.
Nevertheless, Shima is certainly entitled to define love as he sees fit. My definition, while rooted in my scriptures, seeks to differentiate between the hazy, amorphous feeling called love (which is often lust driven), and a choice to prefer another to oneself. My view makes an attempt to break down feelings and thoughts, so that motives and choices can be better scrutinized.
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Well, I disagree partly. Love is an emotion. Often, we cannot choose to feel differently. What we do have a choise about is what we do with that love.
For someone, love means scrificing your life so save that of someone else. In this case, the choise isn't about love but rather how you react to it.
For someone else, love leads to despair because the recipient doesn't love him/her back. Despair is also an emotion, but again the choise is not the emotion itself but rather how we react to it. He could react by stalking her, and eventually killing her. Or, he could try to avoid contact and simply wait for the love to pass. Or, he could force her to say that she doesn't love him. Yes, this will hurt, and it will hurt a lot, but the person is often the better for it after a while.
So, the choise lies not in what we feel, but rather how we react to that feeling.
To get back to the subject: we cannot measure the emotion itself. We can detect how someone reacts to other people. But still, the interaction with other people could be motivated by other things than love. And we have no way to detect those emotions.
For sacrifice of your own life, I cannot imagine any other emotion, but there are very few actions that are so clear.
I guess that you don't understand a word I'm saying. I'm sorry you don't get it, but that is not that surprising.
You probably think that there is no difference between the real world and your interpretation of the real world.
Its attractive, sure, but there is a difference between it being attractive and it being true. And attractiveness has nothing to do with truth.
And God is true because the bible says so. Sounds like a circular arguement.
The attractiveness of the message makes people want to believe that God exists. However, wanting something to be true doesn't make it true. On the contrary, wishfull thinking often distords your vision of reality in such a way that you can "see" the evidence for what you really want.
You so want it to be true, Freak, that it blinds you to the real world. I sincerely hope you wake up.....
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One Eyed Jack
New member
Shima -- out of curiousity, would your native tongue happen to be Spanish, by any chance?
LightSon
New member
That is a good point. The truth is not always attractive. Falsehood is often very attractive.
In my most rational moments however, I should prefer the truth no matter how unpleasant it appears.
Proverbs 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
One Eyed Jack
New member
Portuguese, then?