The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

[JudgeRightly]

"Why doesn't this thread allow editing a post?"

I don't why.

--Dave

It doesn't allow editing because it's in the TOL Hall of fame.

Still need you to answer the question I asked:

Dave, question for you.

Did God create darkness?
Or did darkness come about as a result of God creating light?

I'll respond to the rest of your post . . . when I get an answer to my question, along with the response you give me.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Is the moon lighter than air?



--Hop Sing

We were not talking about the sun, moon, and stars. We were talking about what keeps things on earth not about what keeps the sun, moon, and stars moving above the earth. With flat earth theory the sun, moon, and stars are not all the same thing, they are not all planets.

My point has always been that what keeps us on the flat stationary earth "is not" the same thing that keeps the sun, moon, and stars moving above us. Newton believed what keeps us on a spinning orbiting planet is the same thing that keeps all other spinning planets (sun, moon, and stars) in their orbits--gravity.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

It doesn't allow editing because it's in the TOL Hall of fame.

Still need you to answer the question I asked:

Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
Dave, question for you.

Did God create darkness?
Or did darkness come about as a result of God creating light?

I'll respond to the rest of your post . . . when I get an answer to my question, along with the response you give me.

Genesis says "darkness was on the face of the deep", God said let there be light. But I think I understand what you should just say. Gravity does not have to be mentioned in Genesis in order to exist. I agree to that. So now you can make your point.

--Dave

 

[WizardofOz]

Things that are heavier than air come down, things that are lighter than air go up. There are things that float and things that sink in water.

When I throw an object into the air and it goes up, it doesn't do so because it is lighter than air. The density of the object does not change mid flight. Why does it come back down to me? That is the force we are discussing.

Why does the sun rise and set and why does the moon appear to travel through our sky at night?

Velocity is movement, and the speed of what is moving. Gravity is about the direction of things that move, regardless of how fast. Gravity is always moving everything toward something else and causes everything to come together. Yet, the law of thermodynamics and entropy state that things are moving or falling apart, moving away from each other.

:amr: I think you should quote the law you are referring to and then explain how it applies to gravity.

Because we see that this understanding of gravity does not hold up in reality we have all these theories that are exceptions to the general rule. Simply put, that things fall to earth is not proof that the earth is a globe.

--Dave

Let's forget the earth is a globe claim for now and just discuss the existence of the force known as gravity.

 

[User Name]

We were not talking about the sun, moon, and stars. We were talking about what keeps things on earth not about what keeps the sun, moon, and stars moving above the earth.

Oh, ok. Why do rocks occasionally fall from the sky? (I think those conspiratorial sphere-tard sciency types call them "meteorites"?) What's up with that?

We were talking about what keeps things on earth not about what keeps the sun, moon, and stars moving above the earth.

Oh.

With flat earth theory the sun, moon, and stars are not all the same thing, they are not all planets.

Are Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus planets? How come they don't fall down to earth?

My point has always been that what keeps us on the flat stationary earth "is not" the same thing that keeps the sun, moon, and stars moving above us. Newton believed what keeps us on a spinning orbiting planet is the same thing that keeps all other spinning planets (sun, moon, and stars) in their orbits--gravity.

If it isn't gravity that keeps the sun, moon, and stars moving above us, then what is?

--Dave

--Fat Albert

 

[JudgeRightly]

Genesis says "darkness was on the face of the deep", God said let there be light. But I think I understand what you should just say. Gravity does not have to be mentioned in Genesis in order to exist. I agree to that. So now you can make your point.

--Dave

Dave, could you please just answer my question? Because that's not where I'm going with this.

Did God create darkness? or was darkness a result of His creating light?

 

[DFT_Dave]

Dave, could you please just answer my question? Because that's not where I'm going with this.

Did God create darkness? or was darkness a result of His creating light?

Just make your point, please.

--Dave

 

[vegascowboy]

Here is a short list of observable proofs for a flat earth

I was riding my horse once late in the day and I we were going at a good clip. I was exhausted, having covered many miles since morning with little rest. As I dozed in the saddle, my horse suddenly came to an abrupt stop. I continued to to move forward, resulting in my going over the horses head and straight into a very deep hole. The hole was full of prickly bushes. The earth didn't seem all that flat to me at that moment.

:carryon:

 

[DFT_Dave]

When I throw an object into the air and it goes up, it doesn't do so because it is lighter than air. The density of the object does not change mid flight. Why does it come back down to me? That is the force we are discussing.

Why does the sun rise and set and why does the moon appear to travel through our sky at night?

:amr: I think you should quote the law you are referring to and then explain how it applies to gravity.

Let's forget the earth is a globe claim for now and just discuss the existence of the force known as gravity.

This tread is about flat earth not gravity. I made my arguments about gravity and no one has addressed them. But that's OK, the goal of debate for me is put the arguments for and against an issue, deal with those points and then move on to others.

I already understand and have seen the world from the heliocentric perspective. I want flat earth to be examined and see where it goes. Since Einstein we have clearly come to an irrational and impossible cosmology of space time and relativity. Where did we go wrong? There are many who believe we never went to moon and flat earth is not the reason why. If that's the case then nothing coming from NASA is true and flat earth and a geocentric universe are possible.

--Dave

 

[JudgeRightly]

Just make your point, please.

--Dave

I will make my point when you answer my question. Not sooner. Are you unable to answer a simple question? Or are you just scared to do so?

Question:
Did God create darkness, or was darkness a result of God creating light?

 

[JudgeRightly]

This tread is about flat earth not gravity.

And yet, the existence of gravity is one of the key issues when attempting to establish the earth is flat. So yes, let's talk about gravity.

I made my arguments about gravity and no one has addressed them.

You apparently can't read then, because we have answered them.

But that's OK, the goal of debate for me is put the arguments for and against an issue, deal with those points and then move on to others.

Then why don't you acknowledge when an argument is being made against your position?

I already understand and have seen the world from the heliocentric perspective. I want flat earth to be examined and see where it goes. Since Einstein we have clearly come to an irrational and impossible cosmology of space time and relativity. Where did we go wrong? There are many who believe we never went to moon and flat earth is not the reason why. If that's the case then nothing coming from NASA is true and flat earth and a geocentric universe are possible.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

The earth, sun, moon, and stars, are all different things, not the same thing.

The Genesis cosmology is confirmed by simple observation. The following is what we all observe.

The earth has life, plant life, animal life, human life. The earth has an atmosphere with oxygen and carbon, to sustain life. The earth has water that also sustains life.

The sun is a bright light that also sustains life on earth but has no life, atmosphere, or water.

The moon is also a light, it may be reflecting the suns light or it may be its own light. The moon has no life, atmosphere, or water.

The stars are also lights without life, atmosphere, and water as far as we know.

The earth, to us on earth, is much larger than sun, moon, and stars. The sun and moon are about the same size but not the same in brightness. The stars are smaller than the sun and moon and not as bright.

The earth, to us on it, is motionless and we see the sun, moon, and stars move across the sky above us along with the clouds, birds, and planes.

The earth, the sun, and the moon are all made up of different elements. The sun is made up of elements that give light and heat. The moon is made up of elements that are absent of heat and produce a light or is made up of reflective elements that produce light from the sun's rays of light.

The ground and seas rise up to our eye level to form a horizon line that is straight, not curved from left to right as far as we can see. This is what happens on a plain or flat surface. If the earth were curved with in a viewing distance we would see it from left to right.

The rays from the sun are at angles that tell us how far away it is.

View attachment 26126

I want establish the flat earth cosmology and then get back to gravity. The cause of movement in the heavens is not the same for a heliocentric universe as it is for flat earth, but an accurate model of flat earth must come first before we can consider that difference.

--Dave

 

[patrick jane]

Gravity is a hoax

[h=1]The Genesis Revelation - How the Bible absolutely describes an enclosed world cosmology[/h]
https://youtu.be/0jdBiz_vwe0

 

[WizardofOz]

This tread is about flat earth not gravity.

Your flat earth theory has led you to doubt the existence of gravity, correct? So, gravity is certainly an important part of what this thread is about.

I made my arguments about gravity

Kindly point out that post or posts

and no one has addressed them.

I am attempting to...

But that's OK, the goal of debate for me is put the arguments for and against an issue, deal with those points and then move on to others.

Let's deal with the point of gravity and how a flat earth model runs into problems when trying to explain the math and physics of it.

I already understand and have seen the world from the heliocentric perspective. I want flat earth to be examined and see where it goes. Since Einstein we have clearly come to an irrational and impossible cosmology of space time and relativity. Where did we go wrong? There are many who believe we never went to moon and flat earth is not the reason why. If that's the case then nothing coming from NASA is true and flat earth and a geocentric universe are possible.

--Dave

There are many very simple reasons why flat earth is not possible. I can point to the engineering of very large bridges, for example. These are tangible, real world examples that don't deal with complex cosmological models. Verrazano-Narrows Bridge -

Because of the height of the towers (693 ft or 211 m) and their distance apart (4,260 ft or 1,298 m), the curvature of the Earth's surface had to be taken into account when designing the bridge—the towers are 1 5⁄8 inches (41.275 mm) farther apart at their tops than at their bases; they are not parallel to each other.

How do you explain this very simple fact of engineering? If a flat earther tried to engineer this bridge, they would have failed as they were not working with an accurate understanding of the shape of the earth itself. Math has no agenda and it is a very big problem for the flat earth theory.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The earth, sun, moon, and stars, are all different things, not the same thing.

The Genesis cosmology is confirmed by simple observation. The following is what we all observe.

The earth has life, plant life, animal life, human life. The earth has an atmosphere with oxygen and carbon, to sustain life. The earth has water that also sustains life.

The sun is a bright light that also sustains life on earth but has no life, atmosphere, or water.

The moon is also a light, it may be reflecting the suns light or it may be its own light. The moon has no life, atmosphere, or water.

The stars are also lights without life, atmosphere, and water as far as we know.

The earth, to us on earth, is much larger than sun, moon, and stars. The sun and moon are about the same size but not the same in brightness. The stars are smaller than the sun and moon and not as bright.

The earth, to us on it, is motionless and we see the sun, moon, and stars move across the sky above us along with the clouds, birds, and planes.

The earth, the sun, and the moon are all made up of different elements. The sun is made up of elements that give light and heat. The moon is made up of elements that are absent of heat and produce a light or is made up of reflective elements that produce light from the sun's rays of light.

The ground and seas rise up to our eye level to form a horizon line that is straight, not curved from left to right as far as we can see. This is what happens on a plain or flat surface. If the earth were curved with in a viewing distance we would see it from left to right.

The rays from the sun are at angles that tell us how far away it is.

View attachment 26126

I want establish the flat earth cosmology and then get back to gravity. The cause of movement in the heavens is not the same for a heliocentric universe as it is for flat earth, but an accurate model of flat earth must come first before we can consider that difference.

--Dave

Dave, I'm not letting you get out of answering this question.

I will make my point when you answer my question. Not sooner. Are you unable to answer a simple question? Or are you just scared to do so?

Question:
Did God create darkness, or was darkness a result of God creating light?

 

[DFT_Dave]

Your flat earth theory has led you to doubt the existence of gravity, correct? So, gravity is certainly an important part of what this thread is about.

Kindly point out that post or posts

I am attempting to...

Let's deal with the point of gravity and how a flat earth model runs into problems when trying to explain the math and physics of it.

There are many very simple reasons why flat earth is not possible. I can point to the engineering of very large bridges, for example. These are tangible, real world examples that don't deal with complex cosmological models. Verrazano-Narrows Bridge -

Because of the height of the towers (693 ft or 211 m) and their distance apart (4,260 ft or 1,298 m), the curvature of the Earth's surface had to be taken into account when designing the bridge—the towers are 1 5⁄8 inches (41.275 mm) farther apart at their tops than at their bases; they are not parallel to each other.

How do you explain this very simple fact of engineering? If a flat earther tried to engineer this bridge, they would have failed as they were not working with an accurate understanding of the shape of the earth itself. Math has no agenda and it is a very big problem for the flat earth theory.

I lived in Staten Island and now Brooklyn and have crossed the Verrazano Bridge many times. I roller blade all summer next to the water and under the bridge. The waters under the bridge and into the harbor from Brooklyn to Staten Island to Manhattan are perfectly flat. You can see the shore line across from each island with no problem.

View attachment 26127

--Dave

 

[CabinetMaker]

I do medical sales and I have sold and set up a lot of scales in doctors offices. Personally, I went from 170 to 195 in one year by working out with weights.

Interestingly, your density did not change much, but your total volume did. Since density is mass per unit volume, That density stays roughly the same but you changed your volume so your weight changed. Why? well, weight is a force, f=ma. Force is mass time acceleration. We know you have mass so that raises the question, what is the acceleration that gives your body weight. That acceleration is gravity.

Everybody has different bone and muscle mass and density.

Yes they do, the differences are relatively minor so we all have a density that is fairly close to everybody else.

Height alone is not an indicator of weight. No one has the exact same bone/muscle mass and density. Only if any two persons had the same mass and density of both bone and muscle along with the same height would they weigh the same.

This is true but that is not the question I asked. If you have two people who have identical densities yet one is 12" taller than the other, the taller person will weigh more. Why?

Your example has nothing to do with gravity.

It has everything to do with gravity. Scales do not measure density, the measure weight. Scales do not measure mass, they measure weight. Weight is a force and a force is defined as mass times acceleration. We know you have mass so what is the acceleration that gives you weight? Gravity. (This is important so it bears repeating.)

See my last post about the problem with gravity and try to answer it.

--Dave

You mean this one?

...
The problem is the concept of gravity's effect on "all" things. "Gravity is the force that attracts a body toward the center of the Earth, or toward any other physical body having mass...everything that has mass will cause a gravitational pull on other objects. In fact, wrap your head around this: Every atom on the earth is pulling at every atom in your body, the sum result of all this force we call gravity. ... Newton's force paris: equal and opposite force. https://www.google.com/search?q=wha.....69i57j0l5.7304j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
...

The one where you say, correctly, that, "Gravity is the force that attracts a body toward the center of the Earth." The main problem you seem to have is that you do not understand what you posted. Gravity pulls things towards the center of the Earth. If the Earth is a disk, where is the center? Why aren't we all sliding towards the center of the disk?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Space is filled with gravity means space and gravity are the same thing. I hope you are beginning to see the problem. If gravity is pulling all particles together then over time everything would become one large mass. And if gravity is pulling every particle together then why are some particles / planets moving away from each other? How can space be both pulling together and pushing away every particle in it? Do you see the contradiction?

Try to answer the question.

--Dave

Because gravity is not the only force in the universe. There is a force known as centripetal force that can counteract gravity. Take a bucket of water and turn it upside down. What happens? The water falls to the ground. Now take that same bucket of water and tie a rope to the handle. Spin it very quickly in a vertical path. What happens when the bucket of water is upside down in this case? The water stays in the bucket.

At about the 1 minute mark you can see a demonstration of this.

 

[CabinetMaker]

One other thing Dave, the effects of gravity fall off at the rate of 1/r^2 meaning that if you move away from a planet by a factor of 2, the effects of gravity are reduced by a factor of 4. So the farther away you are from an object the less the gravity of that object effects you.

 

[patrick jane]

[h=1]Gravity Hoax and square flat earth[/h]

12 minutes


https://youtu.be/TYcUwcYw4E4