The Dilemma of the Geological Layers and their Fossil Contents

[Mr Jack]

There are two ways to create a DNA molecule. One way is a number of steps where energy is saved for a later step, this across hundreds or thousands of steps.

How is "energy stored for later"? How is it even relevant? DNA is reproduced by chemistry in a non-mysterious but non entirely well understood way (most chemistry isn't); there's nothing in the Evolutionary model that suggests that it's ever been produced by anything other than chemistry. There's no special magic DNA making process required, only variations on the exact same methods used to produce DNA today.

Another way is to simply violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics and all the molecules just happen to stick together to make a DNA.

How would that violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics? Please show your working.

 

[The Barbarian]

There are two ways to create a DNA molecule. One way is a number of steps where energy is saved for a later step, this across hundreds or thousands of steps.

Natural selection, in other words. So, a small DNA molecule, undergoing a gene duplication, gets longer. Changes that are beneficial (examples available on request) tend to be preserved. We can observe such things in nature. I don't see a problem.

Another way is to simply violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics and all the molecules just happen to stick together to make a DNA.

So, we're all paying attention. Show us your calculations that demonstrate that it violates the 2nd LOT. Be honest, you don't even understand it well enough to calculate the entropy, do you?

 

[noguru]

There are two ways to create a DNA molecule. One way is a number of steps where energy is saved for a later step, this across hundreds or thousands of steps. Another way is to simply violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics and all the molecules just happen to stick together to make a DNA.

Are you saying that energy can only be stored through divine intervention?

 

[SUTG]

There are two ways to create a DNA molecule. One way is a number of steps where energy is saved for a later step, this across hundreds or thousands of steps. Another way is to simply violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics and all the molecules just happen to stick together to make a DNA.

Still not sure what you're saying.

How do you think 'regular' molecules are formed, and why is DNA any different?

 

[Wootenfan]

Still not sure what you're saying.

How do you think 'regular' molecules are formed, and why is DNA any different?

He's saying he doesn't understand biology and invokes magic as an explanation.

 

[Jukia]

Yorzhik: Is your issue with the manner in which cells currently construct a DNA molecule or the construction of a DNA molecule outside of a cell by natural (meaning not man-made) methods either currently or the very first DNA molecule?

 

[Golfvixen]

Eh, he brought in the "2nd law of thermodynamics" defense. That should pretty much end the argument.

 

[Yorzhik]

How is "energy stored for later"?

For instance, ATP is created and used at specific times. Don't over-think this. So far I've only stated natural reality.

How is it even relevant?

Because DNA got here somehow, so we need to investigate how it happened.

DNA is reproduced by chemistry in a non-mysterious but non entirely well understood way (most chemistry isn't); there's nothing in the Evolutionary model that suggests that it's ever been produced by anything other than chemistry. There's no special magic DNA making process required, only variations on the exact same methods used to produce DNA today.

Yes, exactly. That's my point.

Another way is to simply violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics and all the molecules just happen to stick together to make a DNA.

How would that violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics? Please show your working.

Because if you put all the components that make a DNA in the same place, they won't stick together and make a DNA spontaniously. IF it did, there would have to be a violation of the 2nd law somewhere.

Don't overthink this. If you found a turtle at the top of a fencepost, either someone helped it get up there, or ther was a violation of the 2nd law. Get it now? I'm only stating the natural state of molecules at this point.

 

[Yorzhik]

Natural selection, in other words. So, a small DNA molecule, undergoing a gene duplication, gets longer. Changes that are beneficial (examples available on request) tend to be preserved. We can observe such things in nature. I don't see a problem.

So, we're all paying attention. Show us your calculations that demonstrate that it violates the 2nd LOT. Be honest, you don't even understand it well enough to calculate the entropy, do you?

Because if you put all the components that make a DNA in the same place, they won't stick together and make a DNA spontaniously. IF it did, there would have to be a violation of the 2nd law somewhere.

Don't overthink this. If you found a turtle at the top of a fencepost, either someone helped it get up there, or ther was a violation of the 2nd law. Get it now? I'm only stating the natural state of molecules at this point.

 

[Yorzhik]

Are you saying that energy can only be stored through divine intervention?

You got it, noguru. Energy can only be stored through divine intervention.

Muffins

 

[Yorzhik]

Still not sure what you're saying.

How do you think 'regular' molecules are formed, and why is DNA any different?

DNA isn't different. That's my point.

 

[Yorzhik]

Yorzhik: Is your issue with the manner in which cells currently construct a DNA molecule or the construction of a DNA molecule outside of a cell by natural (meaning not man-made) methods either currently or the very first DNA molecule?

No.

 

[noguru]

For instance, ATP is created and used at specific times. Don't over-think this. So far I've only stated natural reality.


Because DNA got here somehow, so we need to investigate how it happened.


Yes, exactly. That's my point.


Because if you put all the components that make a DNA in the same place, they won't stick together and make a DNA spontaniously. IF it did, there would have to be a violation of the 2nd law somewhere.

Don't overthink this. If you found a turtle at the top of a fencepost, either someone helped it get up there, or ther was a violation of the 2nd law. Get it now? I'm only stating the natural state of molecules at this point.

Poor analogy. Is the turtle dead or alive? A turtle that is alive would not remain on the fence post no matter how it got there. Because its instinct tells it that it can't survive there.

If the turtle is dead the water around the fencepost could have rose to the level of the fence post before you got their and then subsided?

 

[Yorzhik]

Eh, he brought in the "2nd law of thermodynamics" defense. That should pretty much end the argument.

I don't suppose you could give us an example of where the 2nd law applies, could you?

 

[noguru]

You got it, noguru. Energy can only be stored through divine intervention.

Muffins

Well thanks for answering my question.

 

[noguru]

I don't suppose you could give us an example of where the 2nd law applies, could you?

Perhaps you can.

 

[Yorzhik]

Poor analogy. Is the turtle dead or alive? A turtle that is alive would not remain on the fence post no matter how it got there. Because its instinct tells it that it can't survive there.

If the turtle is dead the water around the fencepost could have rose to the level of the fence post before you got their and then subsided?

Google "turtle fencepost". Notice how you have to change the analogy to make it a poor analogy. As Barbarian has taught me, I'm not insulting you by calling you an idiot, I'm only expressing an understanding. Idiot.

 

[noguru]

Google "turtle fencepost". Notice how you have to change the analogy to make it a poor analogy. As Barbarian has taught me, I'm not insulting you by calling you an idiot, I'm only expressing an understanding. Idiot.

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

Let me get this straight. Because you found the analogy with google it must be a good analogy?

It was a poor analogy because you did not specify whether the turtle was dead or alive. Other than that you still post responses that certainly demonstrate that you had a frontal labotomy.

 

[Yorzhik]

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

No.

 

[noguru]

No.

Yes.

Tell me who was your brain surgeon, bottlebrush?