The coronavirus scam

[expos4ever]

In more accurate terms, researchers know masks worn by most people do not inhibit transmission of covid particles, but practicing cleanliness and avoiding contact with others, coupled with the wearing of masks, should reduce the likelihood of catching the disease from others. That is common sense. If you never go out in public or have contact with others you will decrease your chances of catching the disease, whether you wear your mask or not, so the government mandates mask wearing for purely political reasons, not because they work.

First of all, how could it possibly be the case that masks do not inhibit transmission if they do inhibit transmission when combined with other measures? I do not see how such a state of affairs is even possible.

Second, I have provided evidence, from a reputable source, that masks do work. What actual evidence do you have to offer that they do not.

 

[expos4ever]

There was a time when scientists, backed by peer-reviewed papers, claimed the earth was cooling at an alarming rate. They claimed the data from more than a hundred years proved that.

Please provide support for this claim. What peer-reviewed papers made such a claim?

 

[expos4ever]

Unlike lazy secular dupes who believe without question what the group tells them is true, I do my own research and discover facts the ignorant refuse to acknowledge or accept as even possible.

Well, if you do your own research, surely you will be able to cite your sources. Specifics, please.

 

[expos4ever]

Have you ever been a front line worker working one-on-one with dying people and all of the messiness that involves?

Have you ever worked as a statistician gathering data and attempting to analyze it in a non-biased, cogent manner to tease out meaning?

Or are you, as I suspect, just like the other morons here who put blind faith in something that says "Science" in its title?

Q1: No, how is that relevant?
Q2: No, how is that relevant?

The irony here is intense. When you are not prattling on from mother's basement calling people morons and retards, you are most certainly relying on the findings and accomplishments of mainstream science everyday.

That you wish to entertain yourself (and your right-wing buddies) by being belligerent is finend by me. But let's be clear: science has proven to be spectacularly successful as a means for making sense of the world. And medical achievements in particular have been massively successful at reducing needless human suffering. The fact that there have been some errors along the way in no changes this.

I will take science over the witch's brew of conspiracy-theory, fundie nonsense, and other forms of magical thinking to which these forums do so resoundingly attest.

 

[ok doser]

Q1: No, how is that relevant?
Q2: No, how is that relevant?

The irony here is intense. When you are not prattling on from mother's basement calling people morons and retards, you are most certainly relying on the findings and accomplishments of mainstream science everyday.

That you wish to entertain yourself (and your right-wing buddies) by being belligerent is finend by me. But let's be clear: science has proven to be spectacularly successful as a means for making sense of the world. And medical achievements in particular have been massively successful at reducing needless human suffering. The fact that there have been some errors along the way in no changes this.

I will take science over the witch's brew of conspiracy-theory, fundie nonsense, and other forms of magical thinking to which these forums do so resoundingly attest.

I see a permaban in your future

 

[expos4ever]

I see a permaban in your future

This may be true. All I can ask for is "equal treatment under the law".

 

[expos4ever]

funny how science never said masks work to stop the spread of a virus until now....

You claim that science never said masks work to stop the spread of a virus. I do not believe this - please make your case.

 

[ok doser]

This may be true. All I can ask for is "equal treatment under the law".

That's adorable

 

[expos4ever]

That's adorable

Since you are in such a conversational mood, perhaps you would deign answer the questions (Q1 and Q2) per post 1084.

For example, how, exactly, is the fact that I have never "been a front line worker working one-on-one with dying people and all of the messiness that involves" even remotely relevant to the question of the efficacy of masks in preventing transmission of the coronavirus?

Now I will grab a glass of Beaujolais and see how you respond. And I would enjoin you to likewise and grab your beverage of choice, no doubt a snifter of Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill.

 

[way 2 go]

You claim that science never said masks work to stop the spread of a virus. I do not believe this - please make your case.

can you provide actual evidence that is not just smoke and mirrors that a cloth rag over your face is more than 3% effective ?

a cloth mask is 3% effective , which is statistically insignificant
Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.
Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

 

[marke]

First of all, how could it possibly be the case that masks do not inhibit transmission if they do inhibit transmission when combined with other measures? I do not see how such a state of affairs is even possible.

Second, I have provided evidence, from a reputable source, that masks do work. What actual evidence do you have to offer that they do not.

Let's say people practice cleanliness as well as putting on face paint every day to ward off the "China virus demon," and they insist that the face paint is keeping them safe. I say let these people believe whatever they want to believe, whether it makes sense or lacks scientific support of not.

 

[marke]

Please provide support for this claim. What peer-reviewed papers made such a claim?

That was too long ago for most people alive today to remember. However, the cooling alarm was just as real and just as pronounced 50 years ago as the global warming alarmism is today.

http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/02/the-1970s-global-cooling-alarmism.html - global cooling predictions of the 1970s.

I should note here that hundreds of scientific claims from a hundred years ago, such as the Piltdown Man proving evolution, have been thoroughly debunked as more facts were learned correcting earlier erroneous speculations, assumptions, declarations, and assertions.

 

[marke]

Well, if you do your own research, surely you will be able to cite your sources. Specifics, please.

Yes, I can cite materials I still have on file, except for those scientific articles which have since been deleted after the claims were debunked.

 

[marke]

You claim that science never said masks work to stop the spread of a virus. I do not believe this - please make your case.

No science has declared that masks alone stop the passage of extremely small covid particles. All we are being told by most sources is that masks work as long as they are used in conjunction with other measures which actually do have some beneficial effect.

 

[marke]

can you provide actual evidence that is not just smoke and mirrors that a cloth rag over your face is more than 3% effective ?

a cloth mask is 3% effective , which is statistically insignificant
Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.
Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

Those individuals who are committed to mask wearing don't really understand the scientific fact pointed out here that penetration of cloth masks by covid particles is almost 97%. Why are so many officials and others claiming that masks are more effective than that? Because that is what the woke mob believes and preaches and people want to support the mob group-think narrative no matter how unscientific it may be.

 

[expos4ever]

Let's say people practice cleanliness as well as putting on face paint every day to ward off the "China virus demon," and they insist that the face paint is keeping them safe. I say let these people believe whatever they want to believe, whether it makes sense or lacks scientific support of not.

Why are you not answering my question? You claimed this:

researchers know masks worn by most people do not inhibit transmission of covid particles, but practicing cleanliness and avoiding contact with others, coupled with the wearing of masks, should reduce the likelihood of catching the disease from others.

My simple question for you is, again:

how could it possibly be the case that masks do not inhibit transmission if they do inhibit transmission when combined with other measures? I do not see how such a state of affairs is even possible.

 

[expos4ever]

can you provide actual evidence that is not just smoke and mirrors that a cloth rag over your face is more than 3% effective ?

a cloth mask is 3% effective , which is statistically insignificant
Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.
....

How does this support your case? The very data you provide shows that, yes, masks are effective. Not very in the case of cloth mask but quite effective in the case of medical masks.

It needs to be pointed out that a finding that a medical mask only reduces penetrance by about 50% does not necessarily mean that the mask is only 50% effective. It could be the case that cutting out 50% of the particles reduces the chance of infection by 80%. Or it could only reduce it 20%.

The point is that the science on this is in: masks are effective, not perfect of course, but effective in reducing transmission of Covid.

 

[expos4ever]

That was too long ago for most people alive today to remember. However, the cooling alarm was just as real and just as pronounced 50 years ago as the global warming alarmism is today.

http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/02/the-1970s-global-cooling-alarmism.html - global cooling predictions of the 1970s.

I should note here that hundreds of scientific claims from a hundred years ago, such as the Piltdown Man proving evolution, have been thoroughly debunked as more facts were learned correcting earlier erroneous speculations, assumptions, declarations, and assertions.

Gish Gallop. You paste a HUGE list of stuff and expect me to wade through it. This is a common strategy used in these debates.

Now then: The very first claim in that huge list is from Arnold Reitze - not a climate expert: he has degrees in law and public health. These do not qualify him to offer an appropriately informed opinion on the science of global warming and cooling. Note his specialty:

Professor Reitze is the author of seven books and more than 100 research studies and articles on environmental law.

Now, if you can show me a qualified expert who said the earth was cooling, we can discuss that.

And maybe there will be such a person. So what?

It is exceedingly odd that opponents of mainstream science (e.g. anti-vaxxers, creationists) point to "mistakes" in the history of science as if such errors were evidence that the scientific approach is not reliable. The irony, of course, is that the willingness to recognize and correct past errors is a hallmark of the strength, not the weakness, of the scientific approach to making sense of the world. Contrast this to the rigid dogmatism of religious fundamentalism.

 

[marke]

Why are you not answering my question? You claimed this:

researchers know masks worn by most people do not inhibit transmission of covid particles, but practicing cleanliness and avoiding contact with others, coupled with the wearing of masks, should reduce the likelihood of catching the disease from others.

My simple question for you is, again:

how could it possibly be the case that masks do not inhibit transmission if they do inhibit transmission when combined with other measures? I do not see how such a state of affairs is even possible.

Masks do not restrict the flow of covid particles no matter what other safety precautions are used. The moronic storyline that masks work if used with other safety precautions means that masks don't work without using other safety precautions. Since masks do not restrict the flow of covid particles the whole mask mandate narrative is silly. Why not just say other precautions work but masks don't, which is what is really the case?

 

[marke]

How does this support your case? The very data you provide shows that, yes, masks are effective. Not very in the case of cloth mask but quite effective in the case of medical masks.

It needs to be pointed out that a finding that a medical mask only reduces penetrance by about 50% does not necessarily mean that the mask is only 50% effective. It could be the case that cutting out 50% of the particles reduces the chance of infection by 80%. Or it could only reduce it 20%.

The point is that the science on this is in: masks are effective, not perfect of course, but effective in reducing transmission of Covid.

Masks are effective. They stop 3% of covid particles, allowing the passage of 97% of covid particles. Why is that so hard for woke lefties to understand?