the church

[chrysostom]

the church is man made
-the bible is man made
-all men are created equal
-not all men have the authority
-the keys
-the power to bind and loose
-Jesus used man to build His church
-the church gave us the bible
-the bible tells us about the church

 

[KingdomRose]

Jesus nor the Apostles were big on tradition.. why are you?

The Catholic Italians = Satan... that is all.

I worked for them for a number of years.. I know of what I speak.

The RCC is the perfect example of when you repeat a lie earnest and often enough, you will find gullible people to believe it.

Isn't that what Hitler, Goebbels, and Goering all said? And, BTW, they were all Catholics in good standing!!

 

[KingdomRose]

His defeat of Satan and victory over death are just as/if not more important than his suffering on the cross... yet all your crosses still have Jesus hanging on them which signifies his incomplete work.. your 14 stations of the cross once again dwells on only his suffering.

The cross is empty and the grave is empty, that IS the victory he accomplished!

I am against icons/symbols of any kind... but only an empty cross should be in christian churches if you are going to allow symbols... as it signifies our victory.. our hope!

Showing Christ on the cross still suffering, implies guilt and implies that we too must suffer, which of course is a lie.

Good points. I've always cringed at the crucifixes I see hanging on walls and on the pope's staff that he flings around like he wants to give Christ a good jolt and aggravate his agonizing wounds.

My Father used to say, "That's where they want to keep him!"

 

[KingdomRose]

that doesn't make sense
-our crucifix reminds us what Jesus did for us
-nothing more

Sorry, Chrysostom, you are one of the most shallow thinkers I have come across in awhile, among a few others here. You just don't get it. No offense meant!

My goodness. You talk like you would carry around a picture of, say, your father's bloody and mangled body after he saved you from getting hit by a car, taking the hit himself. "Oh look what my father did for me!" you'd say. I think that's gross. I don't believe you would actually do that. So why keep Jesus up there on a cross, bloody and broken, to be gawked at by billions?

 

[KingdomRose]

this is true
-we call it scandal
-and
-we are not supposed to bear false witness against our neighbor
-so you seem to be guilty of both
-since you are accusing us of something you know to be not true

The whole world knows that the RCC is metaphorically riding on the back of the governments of this world, trying to manipulate them this way and that (Revelation chapters 17 & 18). The world also knows the bloody, evil, cruel past of the Church, all the way back to the 2nd or 3rd century. How is it that you don't know about these things? I asked you once to tell me about Rodrigo Borgia. I'm still waiting.

 

[KingdomRose]

so you agree that we don't actually worship mary?

The pope sure does. John Paul II absolutely adored Mary and went out of his way to worship her at her many shrines, like the Black Madonna. This new pope kisses her statues and talks about her more, for sure, than he does the Father, or even Jesus!

If you don't worship Mary, you must not be keeping up with what the popes are doing.

 

[KingdomRose]

I've talked to them.... I knew for a fact that the wife of one of my coworkers worships Mary. And she will admit she shouldn't but her church doesn't care as long as she is quiet about it.

Quiet???? The pope worships Mary! No one would criticize your coworker's wife. If I knew how to do it, I'd put pictures I have on my Pinterest boards here on these threads.

 

[KingdomRose]

is it a sin to say you worship your mother?

Yes, it's a sin to worship ANYONE other than Jehovah, the Most High. Jesus said so himself, as he quoted from Deuteronomy. "It is written [at Deut.6:13 and 10:20], 'It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.'" (Luke 4:8)

 

[KingdomRose]

do you think God hears the prayers to saints?

NO. He doesn't want to.

 

[KingdomRose]

Why, He taught them to pray to Our Father Who art in heaven, of course. The Our Father is the first prayer in each decade of the Rosary, which is the Church's more developed answer to the question, "How should I pray?" You should pray the Rosary.

Why? How many times do you say the "Hail Mary"? That "prayer" is giving Mary the adoration that should go only to God.

 

[KingdomRose]

Of course I do. And the Scripture and Church history weave together into a wonderful tapestry of the Lord's grace upon us since He came. He gave to His Apostles the authority to rule His Church, and it is from the Church's bishops, the Apostles' successors, whose job it is to teach and to pray, that we get both the Rosary and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. They have been teaching and praying since the Apostles, and they reveal to us all, free of charge, what they know about both. The Lord Himself began it all, in praying, Our Father, Who are in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Uh, you didn't say anything about where in the Bible it says to pray to anyone other than the Father.

BTW, I'm beginning to wonder if you are affiliated with any particular Catholic Church. You say the church gives out information free of charge. I haven't ever heard of a Catholic Church that didn't ask for peoples' money. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they pass a basket or a plate around at least once during a service? And it used to be that a family had to buy or rent a pew in the church. Is that still practiced?

 

[KingdomRose]

mary asked us to say the rosary
-she has appeared many times
-no one can deny the effects of these marian apparitions

Please. Have you never read this?:

"For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, who masquerade as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. So it is not strange that his ministers also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15, New American Bible)

Can you see that what APPEARS to be something from God just might not be? Satan is real good at deceiving people, isn't he? And to have "Mary" say to pray to her! She's going against what Jesus said!


Yeah, no one can deny the effects of Mary's apparitions. People are persuaded that the apparitions are actually Mary. :sigh: In Springfield, MA where I lived a few years ago, people were crowded into a parking lot at a big Catholic Church where "Mary" had appeared between the panes of glass in one of the windows of the school wing of the church. People were crying and taking pictures. I felt like going there and telling them that Mary was in the window of my upstairs bathroom, which was true because the moisture from the shower had collected between the panes of glass and formed into Mary! But I didn't want all those people in my driveway and on the lawn.:rotfl:

 

[KingdomRose]

Jesus taught us to pray
-mary asked us to pray
-so you are not making sense

No, YOU'RE not making sense. I feel bad for you that you can't seem to absorb what you're being told. Scriptures from the Bible don't even impress you. Do you actually ever read the Bible? (I've been quoting from "the official Catholic Bible," the NAB.)

 

[TulipBee]

It isn't. The myriad non-Catholic denominations and sects that have sprung up over the past five centuries, however, are---every one of them---invented by some mere man or men, including yours.

Firstly Christianity is man made, seeing as Jesus was a man, and so were his disciples. Are we asking for Orthodox and Protestant reasons for thinking the Catholic Church isn't what it says it is? If so, the Orthodox answer is that the views of the RCC have changed, with making Original Sin a doctrine, as with the Immaculate Conception, classification of sins as mortal and venal, and views on penance and Purgatory. The fact that Papal authority over all bishops, even those outside of his Patriarchate is a new idea. These ideas are not found in the early church, and they come from the ideas of men, prone to pride, prone to the love of a "good idea" which is the mother of heresy.

 

[TulipBee]

the church is man made
-the bible is man made
-all men are created equal
-not all men have the authority
-the keys
-the power to bind and loose
-Jesus used man to build His church
-the church gave us the bible
-the bible tells us about the church

Bible is breathed by God, not man. Creepy how man made RCC is. A denomination without the Spirit. So dead, it stinks. They speak like maggots

 

[chrysostom]

the church is man made
-the bible is man made
-all men are created equal
-not all men have the authority
-the keys
-the power to bind and loose
-Jesus used man to build His church
-the church gave us the bible
-the bible tells us about the church

 

[KingdomRose]

Chrysostom: I'm still waiting for you to answer my posts.

 

[chrysostom]

Chrysostom: I'm still waiting for you to answer my posts.

you have no authority

 

[TulipBee]

you have no authority

Neither does the pope

 

[chrysostom]

Neither does the pope

let's see, I have to accept
-what you say
-or
-what the church says
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I'm thinking
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I'll go with the church