the church

[KingdomRose]

Only unregenerate people need rules....

Only fools eschew rules.

 

[KingdomRose]

Thanks.I'm not Catholic, so apparently it's not just a Catholic thing. I am not sure the Holy Orthodox position on Purgatory, but most everything that the united Church believed and taught leading up to the Great Schism between the east and the west, the Orthodox still believe and teach today, so my guess is, probably.

There either is, or there is not, a period of purifying, before we fully enter into and/or enjoy our eternal life with our Maker and with His Church. I say there is, and I base it on the teaching of the Church's teachers, our bishops, the Magisterium, who have believed in and taught it as far as we can tell from the very beginning.

It's not a "salvation issue" to believe in Purgatory. I just think that it logically follows from the fact that we will inherit eternal life, along with it having been taught from the beginning.
Thanks again.

There IS a "purifying," but not like a purgatory.....It is during the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. All people will be brought back to perfection. People don't need a purifying before they enter into Paradise. That is what Paradise under Christ is for.

 

[KingdomRose]

Start reading the "True Bible" from cover to cover and it may set you free from the falsehoods of the Catholic church.

Um, they have the real Bible. The Douay Version is real, the Jerusalem Bible is real, the New American Bible is real....all of those are Catholic, and there are more versions they have also.

 

[KingdomRose]

I meant you should read the Bible that is free of Catholic dogma. Get yourself a King James version or a New King James Version, one that doesn't include any Catholic false doctrine.

Say what? The Protestant versions say the same thing as the Catholic versions. The KJV is almost word-for-word the same as the Douay, for example. Catholic doctrine comes from TRADITION, and has little to do with the Bible.

 

[KingdomRose]

Correct. :thumb:

As I can demonstrate the Jehovah's Witness position from any Bible version, Protestant or Catholic. However, I beg to decline the Mormon Bible, re-written by Joe Smith.:freak:

 

[Cruciform]

There IS a "purifying," but not like a purgatory...

See the biblical teaching on purgatory HERE.

 

[Cruciform]

You know all about Catholicism, but how about what the Bible actually says? I bet you don't know much about that.

You're embarrassing yourself. No doubt your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Christian sect has fed you the line that "Catholics don't read the Bible!" and that JWs know the Scriptures faaar better than those ignorant Catholics!" Sorry, but you've been badly misled by your utterly man-made sect, and not just about that.

The fact is that I was an Evangelical Protestant for some forty years prior to entering the Catholic Church. I've been studying the Bible for that entire time, including during my time at two universities (one of which was Baptist), and a theological seminary (also Baptist). So I studied the Scriptures for decades as a Protestant, and have continued to do so as a Catholic for the past fifteen years. Your completely false assumptions about me, however, are noted.

Well, neither does the pope. Why should a Catholic care, right?

Again, you're embarrassing yourself. It's clear that you actually know nothing whatsoever about Catholic belief and teaching except the wildly inaccurate anti-Catholic propaganda you've been fed by the Russellites. Very sad.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[KingdomRose]

1) No. That interpretation is horrible. I invited one of the regional JW guys to my house. The guy could not read a lick of Greek, like he told me he could. He lied or was severely deluded and inept. JW's generally are the C- and below school students from what I've met. You have to not be too bright to buy into that mess (hate to put you in that category...)
2) "Billions" is a good number but most JW's do not include Trinitarians (literally those "Billions" you speak of). There might not even be a million of you throughout all of history.
3) JW's are a cult.
4) They very much try to work their way to salvation

You don't know diddly about JWs. We do not believe in working our way to salvation. I don't know why that keeps being said. I can't imagine why that brother said he could read Greek when he knew he couldn't. I would guess you misunderstood him. If you think JWs are below average in knowledge, you haven't met very many. The "mess" we buy into is only what the Bible actually SAYS. What kind of "mess" are you specifically referring to?

There are 8 million of us on earth today. We have another 9 million people who are studying the Bible with us. 20 million people went to the Memorial of Christ's Death last year, and probably more this year. The billions I referred to are all the people who have ever lived and will be resurrected into the new earth (Paradise). If any of them are Trinitarians, they won't be for long.

And what interpretation is "horrible"? What are you talking about?

 

[KingdomRose]

You're embarrassing yourself. No doubt your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Christian sect has fed you the line that "Catholics don't read the Bible!" and that JWs know the Scriptures faaar better than those ignorant Catholics!" Sorry, but you've been badly misled by your utterly man-made sect, and not just about that.

The fact is that I was an Evangelical Protestant for some forty years prior to entering the Catholic Church. I've been studying the Bible for that entire time, including during my time at two universities (one of which was Baptist), and a theological seminary (also Baptist). So I studied the Scriptures for decades as a Protestant, and have continued to do so as a Catholic for the past fifteen years. Your completely false assumptions about me, however, are noted.


Again, you're embarrassing yourself. It's clear that you actually know nothing whatsoever about Catholic belief and teaching except the wildly inaccurate anti-Catholic propaganda you've been fed by the Russellites. Very sad.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

How could someone as knowledgeable as yourself have become so deluded? It staggers the mind!

I formed the opinion that most Catholics don't read the Bible because my father-in-law said that his priest used to tell them not to read it. He said that it was up to the priest to tell them what's in the Bible. And believe me...I've encountered many Catholics in the door-to-door work, and IF they can find their Bible, they usually don't know a thing about it, and it's pathetic to watch them try to find any of the books in the Bible. That's just been my experience.

The Baptists didn't help you any in your knowledge of the Bible. I was a Baptist before I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I KNOW that JWs know more about the Bible than they do. If that's what you say to show you have a vast knowledge about the Bible, I have to say that you really don't know much. I thought I knew everything about the Bible when I was a Baptist. I was determined to show a JW woman that she was wrong, and I brandished my KJV and proceeded to try and prove her foolish. It's not possible. JWs know the Bible better than anyone.

You say I don't know anything about Catholic belief, when I was MARRIED TO ONE?:crackup: No JW had to tell me anything about Catholics.

 

[Lon]

You don't know diddly about JWs. We do not believe in working our way to salvation. I don't know why that keeps being said. I can't imagine why that brother said he could read Greek when he knew he couldn't.

I've seen a lot of horrible behavior from the upper echelon of the JW's. One speaker from a JW convention came into where my wife and I were eating and started hitting on one of the married women sitting next to us. My wife and I lost our appetite and left. That guy ruined our night out. He was vulgar and disgusting and had a huge badge on that marked him as one of the main speakers at the JW convention. All the JW's at the table were laughing and playing along. Why? Because her husband wasn't a JW so was 'fair game.' :vomit:

I would guess you misunderstood him.

Sure you do. You are making excuses. Sorry to burst your bubble.

If you think JWs are below average in knowledge, you haven't met very many.

:yawn:

The "mess" we buy into is only what the Bible actually SAYS. What kind of "mess" are you specifically referring to?

and again :yawn:

There are 8 million of us on earth today. We have another 9 million people who are studying the Bible with us. 20 million people went to the Memorial of Christ's Death last year, and probably more this year. The billions I referred to are all the people who have ever lived and will be resurrected into the new earth (Paradise). If any of them are Trinitarians, they won't be for long.

So just the few of you then lain: I've met too many JW's. None of them were all that great and are hypocrites. Another guy tried to run over a friend of mine because he left pamphlets on cars at one of those JW conventions telling them that they were caught in a cult. Quite the spiritual response to you? :think: JW's I've come in contact with haven't been stellar.

And what interpretation is "horrible"? What are you talking about?

Lots, but in this case the idea that 144,000 JW's will be in Heaven... :nono: That's one reason I question JW grades. This is just none-too-bright idiocy.

 

[chrysostom]

am I the only one having trouble with tol?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I've seen a lot of horrible behavior from the upper echelon of the JW's. One speaker from a JW convention came into where my wife and I were eating and started hitting on one of the married women sitting next to us. My wife and I lost our appetite and left. That guy ruined our night out. He was vulgar and disgusting and had a huge badge on that marked him as one of the main speakers at the JW convention. All the JW's at the table were laughing and playing along. Why? Because her husband wasn't a JW so was 'fair game.' :vomit:

Sure you do. You are making excuses. Sorry to burst your bubble.


:yawn:

and again :yawn:
So just the few of you then lain: I've met too many JW's. None of them were all that great and are hypocrites. Another guy tried to run over a friend of mine because he left pamphlets on cars at one of those JW conventions telling them that they were caught in a cult. Quite the spiritual response to you? :think: JW's I've come in contact with haven't been stellar.

Lots, but in this case the idea that 144,000 JW's will be in Heaven... :nono: That's one reason I question JW grades. This is just none-too-bright idiocy.

Good post Lon.

 

[Cruciform]

How could someone as knowledgeable as yourself have become so deluded? It staggers the mind!

"Deluded" according to the entirely non-authoritative opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Christian sect, anyway. :yawn:

I formed the opinion that most Catholics don't read the Bible because my father-in-law said that his priest used to tell them not to read it. He said that it was up to the priest to tell them what's in the Bible.

How old is your father-in-law?

And believe me...I've encountered many Catholics in the door-to-door work, and IF they can find their Bible, they usually don't know a thing about it, and it's pathetic to watch them try to find any of the books in the Bible. That's just been my experience.

That's been my experience with respect to most lay believers, both Catholic and Protestant. The majority of professing Christians don't know the Bible as well as they should. And the ones who do---like yourself---have merely learned to interpret Scripture according to the doctrinal tradition of their particular "church" or sect.

The Baptists didn't help you any in your knowledge of the Bible.

I was never a Baptist, though over the years I was involved in most of the major Protestant traditions that exist in Christendom (for example, Methodist/Holiness; Pentecostal; Presbyterian; Reformed). Nor were all of my professors Baptists. So this is just one more false assumption on your part. Once again, you've simply been misled by the JW tradition.

JWs know the Bible better than anyone.

At least, that's what you've been led by your man-made Russellite sect to believe. What you actually "know" is not Scripture itself, but merely the standard collection of JW's preferred interpretations of Scripture. Big difference there.

You say I don't know anything about Catholic belief, when I was MARRIED TO ONE?

If you haven't studied Catholic doctrine carefully and thoroughly from the primary sources, you know next to nothing about the Catholic faith. Sadly, many former Catholics abandon the Church in their youth, and had never adequately understood the doctrinal content of the Church in the first place. Again, you need to go the the Church herself for an accurate and fair comprehension of the Catholic Church and her teachings.

No JW had to tell me anything about Catholics.

It's clear that no properly-informed Catholic did, either.

 

[Nihilo]

There IS a "purifying," but not like a purgatory.....It is during the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. All people will be brought back to perfection. People don't need a purifying before they enter into Paradise. That is what Paradise under Christ is for.

Most of us have built a terrific fire, and it's just going to burn until it burns itself out, and it's going to take as long as it takes. The fire burns because we trespass our Maker's laws. The Church is the lone earthly authority over just what our Maker's laws are. This is because our Maker became flesh and built the Church Himself.

 

[chrysostom]

...It is during the Thousand Year Reign of Christ.

where does it say
-reign of Christ

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

where does it say
-reign of Christ

Do Kings reign?

 

[KingdomRose]

See the biblical teaching on purgatory HERE.

I noticed that the scriptures were totally re-formed into whatever was in the mind of the person who wrote that stuff. What the writer of pro-purgatory said was made up by him and did not have anything to do with Jesus' illustration.

 

[KingdomRose]

I've seen a lot of horrible behavior from the upper echelon of the JW's. One speaker from a JW convention came into where my wife and I were eating and started hitting on one of the married women sitting next to us. My wife and I lost our appetite and left. That guy ruined our night out. He was vulgar and disgusting and had a huge badge on that marked him as one of the main speakers at the JW convention. All the JW's at the table were laughing and playing along. Why? Because her husband wasn't a JW so was 'fair game.' :vomit:

Sure you do. You are making excuses. Sorry to burst your bubble.


:yawn:

and again :yawn:
So just the few of you then lain: I've met too many JW's. None of them were all that great and are hypocrites. Another guy tried to run over a friend of mine because he left pamphlets on cars at one of those JW conventions telling them that they were caught in a cult. Quite the spiritual response to you? :think: JW's I've come in contact with haven't been stellar.

Lots, but in this case the idea that 144,000 JW's will be in Heaven... :nono: That's one reason I question JW grades. This is just none-too-bright idiocy.

I have never heard of anything like what you describe, ever. You were not getting the right story from that scene with the guy "hitting on" a married woman. If everyone was chatting and going along with it, you know it wasn't inappropriate. You ASSUMED something that wasn't true. About the guy who tried to "run your friend over"....that, I'm sure is an exaggerated embellishment. Probably the JW brother FELT like running him over, but he wouldn't do it. He'd get put out of the organization.

What you mention as "a lot of horrible behavior by the upper echelon" is really NOT "a lot." You saw something that was probably misunderstood (no one would flirt that way in public) and you HEARD something from a friend who was probably exaggerating. You should do more research into JWs and what we really believe.

You obviously don't understand about the 144,000. Say, why don't you tell us what you believe about the 144,000? I wonder if it makes as much sense as what we believe.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I have never heard of anything like what you describe, ever. You were not getting the right story from that scene with the guy "hitting on" a married woman. If everyone was chatting and going along with it, you know it wasn't inappropriate. You ASSUMED something that wasn't true. About the guy who tried to "run your friend over"....that, I'm sure is an exaggerated embellishment. Probably the JW brother FELT like running him over, but he wouldn't do it. He'd get put out of the organization.

What you mention as "a lot of horrible behavior by the upper echelon" is really NOT "a lot." You saw something that was probably misunderstood (no one would flirt that way in public) and you HEARD something from a friend who was probably exaggerating. You should do more research into JWs and what we really believe.

You obviously don't understand about the 144,000. Say, why don't you tell us what you believe about the 144,000? I wonder if it makes as much sense as what we believe.

Do all your opinions come out of the "Watchtower?"

 

[Ktoyou]

The problem Catholics ignore is that many popes broke that Apostolic succession when these Popes who fell into sin.