the church

Zeke

Zeke

Well-known member
chrysostom said:
the history of the church written by eusebius made it through the dark ages
-but
-you can still rewrite it
-and
-all you need is some credibility
Click to expand...

Or you need to ponder you're own assumptions concerning history, granted everyone can find just about any position they want to believe in, yet some things are obviously true in all ages like those who have the power and resources to write the history slant it in their favor to push their agenda.

I am perplexed that you, and most others wearing the mask of Christianity can't grasped these worldly institutions/Churches are not concerned with their best interest, no more than a politician is working for the liberty of the people they are pretending to represent, Both have a purpose that divides people and distract them from the real cause of the duality in mans conscience that is being used against him through fraud and lies that programs/parasites the mind/ego to except those dogmas.

Another obvious fact is that more people are awakening to the fiction/PERSON they have been living under, which is a signal to these institutions of deception to try and put a stumbling block in that path, and that is a known pattern of the passing age to CAPITALIZE deception.
 
Nick M

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
chrysostom said:
-18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter
-19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven
-peter got the keys
-and
-the power to bind and loose
-that means he was in charge
-someone must be in charge
-that should be clear
Click to expand...

Galatians 2

7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

New member
chrysostom said:
-the church gave us the bible
-the church helps us understand it
-the church is preaching the gospel to all nations
Click to expand...

The idea that the church gave us the Bible does not lead directly to the idea that the church was fully cognizant of what it was doing. God has used institutions of the world to further His purposes before and since. He wanted His people to be able to leave Babylon so He made the moves with Cyrus the Persian, Cyrus not knowing that he was operating as per God's designs.

The church doesn't help anybody understand the Bible. The Vatican NEVER says, "This is what we'll do because the Bible says this or that." The church does things directly against what the Bible says, and they aren't concerned because they have taught the people that tradition is more important than Biblia. Even very clear teachings of Jesus are overstepped by the church.

"Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven." (Matthew 23:9, New American Bible)

Very clear. Don't call any man "Father," meaning your spiritual father, of course. This is ignored by the church, and nobody notices because the church doesn't teach what the Bible says.

"Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the last times some will turn away from the faith by paying attention to deceitful spirits and demonic instructions through the hypocrisy of liars with branded [numb] consciences. They forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving." (I Timothy 4:1-4, NAB)

Does the church forbid priests to marry? Is that completely overstepping the teaching of the Bible? Yes, but tradition comes before Bible teaching. Look up the history of priests being forbidden to marry. It all had to do with wealth, and if priests married, upon their demise their wealth would go to their wives and not the church.

These are but a couple examples of what I'm talking about.

Now, you say that the church "is preaching the gospel to all nations." What actually IS "the gospel"? Do you know Jesus' words at Matthew 24:14? Have you been taught what Jesus actually says? The "gospel" is the good news of the KINGDOM. Your Catholic Bibles ALL say this:

"And this gospel of the Kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come." (NAB)

Have you been taught what the Kingdom is? Perhaps there has been mention of it being "in your heart"? That's not what the Bible teaches. It says that God's Kingdom is a real GOVERNMENT that will take control of the whole world, destroying all of men's governments. (Daniel 2:44; Isaiah 9:6,7; Revelation 19:11-21) Can you say that this gospel of the Kingdom has been taught throughout the world? I have NEVER heard any pope utter the word "Kingdom," never mind what it actually is. The church's political buddies wouldn't like that, would they?

So, no, the church doesn't teach what the Bible says, and it has not taught anyone about the gospel of the Kingdom.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
chrysostom said:
and on this rock I will build my church
Click to expand...

Do you have any supporting scipture that Peter was the rock and not Jesus being the Christ?
16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."



Jesus being the Messiah is the foundation of all that we believe. Here are scriptures supporting Jesus being the Christ which is the rock.

Dan. 2:34 You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them
1 Cor. 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
Acts 4:10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead-by this name this man stands here before you in good health. 11 He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief corner stone.

As PJ pointed out, scripture reveals Peter to be more like a foundation of sand.
Gal. 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

BANNED
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SaulToPaul said:
In how many doctrines do you disagree with the Magisterium and submit to your own private interpretation?
have you counted them?
Click to expand...
No, I have not counted. I don't know how many. I'm still learning though. It'd be like beginning to work with a doctoral adviser, which is a many-year relationship, and asked to present a very serious opinion of the person after having just met them.

You don't disagree with your doctoral adviser right off. You listen. You think, "They've already got their doctorate. I don't. It shouldn't surprise me if I disagree with them; there's a difference between having and not having earned a doctorate already."

Once you get your doctorate, then you have earned the right to disagree with your adviser. When the Holy Vader puts his signet ring on a teaching, he says that it's infallible, it means that not only he but every pope, and every bishop, agrees with him. This doctrine is trustworthy. Instead of a single doctoral adviser, you actually have thousands and thousands of bishops, and not just the living bishops in communion with the pope (along with the pope being, the Magisterium) but every bishop all throughout history and the Apostles.

Including the genuine original Holy Vader Peter.

And Paul. :)
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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Totton Linnet said:
When the Lord says "upon THIS rock I will build My church" He is making it crystal there can be no "succession" of leaders. The foundation is laid, we can only build upon the foundation which is laid.
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We just weren't there. We have to take it on faith, but the reason it's worth taking it on faith is because the history of the Holy Catholic Church is the closest thing to what we would expect if we really believe in Jesus, and in God, and that He ascended and that the Father is right now and has been since AD 33 been making our Lord's enemies into His footstool.

The "narrow gate" people . . . I don't get them. It's like they have literally zero faith. They dream up the most unflattering, unglorifying possibility and insist that that's how we should see history, through that lens. Please. You don't think that the Father has been at work effectively? The Holy Catholic Church exists visibly in virtually every nation on the earth, and speaks virtually every language. It's far and away the most obvious direct proof that God exists and that He loves us.

The statement in Matthew 16:18 really hits home when "Peter" and "rock" are both rendered "Cephas;" the Aramaic.
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Cephas, and upon this cephas I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
​
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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KingdomRose said:
The idea that the church gave us the Bible does not lead directly to the idea that the church was fully cognizant of what it was doing. God has used institutions of the world to further His purposes before and since. He wanted His people to be able to leave Babylon so He made the moves with Cyrus the Persian, Cyrus not knowing that he was operating as per God's designs.

The church doesn't help anybody understand the Bible. The Vatican NEVER says, "This is what we'll do because the Bible says this or that." The church does things directly against what the Bible says, and they aren't concerned because they have taught the people that tradition is more important than Biblia. Even very clear teachings of Jesus are overstepped by the church.

"Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven." (Matthew 23:9, New American Bible)

Very clear. Don't call any man "Father," meaning your spiritual father, of course. This is ignored by the church, and nobody notices because the church doesn't teach what the Bible says.

"Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the last times some will turn away from the faith by paying attention to deceitful spirits and demonic instructions through the hypocrisy of liars with branded [numb] consciences. They forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving." (I Timothy 4:1-4, NAB)

Does the church forbid priests to marry? Is that completely overstepping the teaching of the Bible? Yes, but tradition comes before Bible teaching. Look up the history of priests being forbidden to marry. It all had to do with wealth, and if priests married, upon their demise their wealth would go to their wives and not the church.

These are but a couple examples of what I'm talking about.

Now, you say that the church "is preaching the gospel to all nations." What actually IS "the gospel"? Do you know Jesus' words at Matthew 24:14? Have you been taught what Jesus actually says? The "gospel" is the good news of the KINGDOM. Your Catholic Bibles ALL say this:

"And this gospel of the Kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come." (NAB)

Have you been taught what the Kingdom is? Perhaps there has been mention of it being "in your heart"? That's not what the Bible teaches. It says that God's Kingdom is a real GOVERNMENT that will take control of the whole world, destroying all of men's governments. (Daniel 2:44; Isaiah 9:6,7; Revelation 19:11-21) Can you say that this gospel of the Kingdom has been taught throughout the world? I have NEVER heard any pope utter the word "Kingdom," never mind what it actually is. The church's political buddies wouldn't like that, would they?

So, no, the church doesn't teach what the Bible says, and it has not taught anyone about the gospel of the Kingdom.
Click to expand...
According to the Holy See, the Holy Catholic Church is "on earth the seed and the beginning of [the Kingdom of Christ and of God]."

So go to Catholic Church, if you care so much about the Kingdom. :)
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

New member
chrysostom said:
the history of the church written by eusebius made it through the dark ages
-but
-you can still rewrite it
-and
-all you need is some credibility
Click to expand...

Some would say that the Church was part of the reason that there were the Dark Ages. It exerted more and more crushing power over people without giving them the spiritual guidance they needed, just like the Pharisees of Jesus' day. Do some research on the Dark Ages.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
chrysostom said:
-18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter
-19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven
-peter got the keys
-and
-the power to bind and loose
-that means he was in charge
-someone must be in charge
-that should be clear
Click to expand...

Jesus told all the disciples, "Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." See Matthew 18:18.

Jesus also told them not to call each other 'father', or the Teacher, because they were brothers.

The Bible forbids favoritism over the Apostles.

Read these scriptures, you will see that Paul even mentions Peter, otherwise known as Simon, and says not to say I follow Simon/Peter as if it means something special.


1 Corinthians 1:11-12 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

1 Corinthians 3:1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere men?

5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness“; 20and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

1 Corinthians 4:6 Now brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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Banned
SaulToPaul said:
How do you know that?
Click to expand...
Because the Holy See teaches it. "The Beatitudes are at the heart of Jesus' preaching. They take up the promises made to the chosen people since Abraham. The Beatitudes fulfill the promises by ordering them no longer merely to the possession of a territory, but to the Kingdom of heaven...."
 
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