the church

Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
clefty said:
Good stuff..

Interesting to note a better understanding of the Hebraic covenant as familial not judicial...implications of inheritance not just being justified...

good too to see its gone from not just reformation but closer to restoration...lol

The clarification on saved by grace was helpful but for me what works are done next reveal the heart...it's gratitude...

Are they works commanded by Yah? Or works obligated by man's traditions...

Do we give thanks/sacrifices and do as He instructed or bring/do what we want...with our own rationale...tradition being just extended peer pressure
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I think its important, even if we disagree, to at least understand peoples' positions correctly. As a Catholic, I can tell you that I have spent most of my time arguing against things that we don't even believe! It's hard enough to discuss real differences, but having to knock down straw man charges and allegations has made me grow weary over the years. Some of the things that people think Catholics believe in is just jaw-dropping.
 
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glassjester

glassjester

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Which ones?

Do you mean the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL?

Take a guess.....
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I won't be so bold as to make an assumption about what you believe.

Were The Twelve Apostles members of the Church that is Christ's body?
 
C

clefty

New member
CatholicCrusader said:
I think its important, even if we disagree, to at least understand peoples' positions correctly. As a Catholic, I can tell that I have spent most of my time arguing against things that we don't even believe! It's hard enough to discuss real differences, but having to knock down straw man charges and allegations has made me grow weary over the years. Some of the things that people think Catholics believe in is just jaw-dropping.
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Well there has been quite a lot of misunderstanding to be sure...

Paul preached on Mars hill that Yah separated the nations in order that we seek Him...

I find that to be true in matters of faith too...those that can disagree and still love and live and learn from each other are those that exemplify "rather mercy than sacrifice"

Much blood has been spilt without that lesson learned...
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
glassjester said:
I won't be so bold as to make an assumption about what you believe.

Were The Twelve Apostles members of the Church that is Christ's body?
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No, they were not. They are part of God's people on the earth. They are the princes in the earthly kingdom that they were promised.

The body of Christ is something very different. We are promised a different inheritance. We will judge angels and NOT the twelve tribes of Israel (1 Cor 6:3).
 
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
TulipBee said:
They invent a unbibical tradition and live off that constantly.
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You're a liar. It's that simple.

Right Divider said:
No, they were not. They are part of God's people on the earth. They are the princes in the earthly kingdom that they were promised.

The body of Christ is something very different. We are promised a different inheritance. We will judge angels and NOT the twelve tribes of Israel (1 Cor 6:3).
Click to expand...

Wrong_Answer_2.jpg
 
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
The word "Church" has more than one meaning, depending on the context.
It means the Body of Christ, all believers.
It can also mean a local church, as we see in Revelation when it refers to local churches.
It can also mean a building.
We do not want to over-complicate things, but we also don't want to dumb things down either

I. NAMES AND IMAGES OF THE CHURCH

751 The word "Church" (Latin ecclesia, from the Greek ek-ka-lein, to "call out of") means a convocation or an assembly. It designates the assemblies of the people, usually for a religious purpose.139 Ekklesia is used frequently in the Greek Old Testament for the assembly of the Chosen People before God, above all for their assembly on Mount Sinai where Israel received the Law and was established by God as his holy people.140 By calling itself "Church," the first community of Christian believers recognized itself as heir to that assembly. In the Church, God is "calling together" his people from all the ends of the earth. The equivalent Greek term Kyriake, from which the English word Church and the German Kirche are derived, means "what belongs to the Lord."

752 In Christian usage, the word "church" designates the liturgical assembly,141 but also the local community 142 or the whole universal community of believers.143 These three meanings are inseparable. "The Church" is the People that God gathers in the whole world. She exists in local communities and is made real as a liturgical, above all a Eucharistic, assembly. She draws her life from the word and the Body of Christ and so herself becomes Christ's Body.

Symbols of the Church

753 In Scripture, we find a host of interrelated images and figures through which Revelation speaks of the inexhaustible mystery of the Church. The images taken from the Old Testament are variations on a profound theme: the People of God. In the New Testament, all these images find a new center because Christ has become the head of this people, which henceforth is his Body.144 Around this center are grouped images taken "from the life of the shepherd or from cultivation of the land, from the art of building or from family life and marriage."145

754 "The Church is, accordingly, a sheepfold, the sole and necessary gateway to which is Christ. It is also the flock of which God himself foretold that he would be the shepherd, and whose sheep, even though governed by human shepherds, are unfailingly nourished and led by Christ himself, the Good Shepherd and Prince of Shepherds, who gave his life for his sheep.146

755 "The Church is a cultivated field, the tillage of God. On that land the ancient olive tree grows whose holy roots were the prophets and in which the reconciliation of Jews and Gentiles has been brought about and will be brought about again. That land, like a choice vineyard, has been planted by the heavenly cultivator. Yet the true vine is Christ who gives life and fruitfulness to the branches, that is, to us, who through the Church remain in Christ, without whom we can do nothing.147

756 "Often, too, the Church is called the building of God. The Lord compared himself to the stone which the builders rejected, but which was made into the corner-stone. On this foundation the Church is built by the apostles and from it the Church receives solidity and unity. This edifice has many names to describe it: the house of God in which his family dwells; the household of God in the Spirit; the dwelling-place of God among men; and, especially, the holy temple. This temple, symbolized in places of worship built out of stone, is praised by the Fathers and, not without reason, is compared in the liturgy to the Holy City, the New Jerusalem. As living stones we here on earth are built into it. It is this holy city that is seen by John as it comes down out of heaven from God when the world is made anew, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.148

757 "The Church, further, which is called 'that Jerusalem which is above' and 'our mother', is described as the spotless spouse of the spotless lamb. It is she whom Christ 'loved and for whom he delivered himself up that he might sanctify her.' It is she whom he unites to himself by an unbreakable alliance, and whom he constantly 'nourishes and cherishes.'"149

139 Cf. Acts 19:39.
140 Cf. Ex 19.
141 Cf. 1 Cor 11:18; 14:19,28,34,35.
142 Cf. 1 Cor 1:2; 16:1.
143 Cf. 1 Cor 15:9; Gal 1:13; Phil 3:6.
144 Cf. Eph 1:22; Col 1:18; LG 9.
145 LG 6.
146 LG 6; cf. Jn 10:1-10; Isa 40:11; Ezek 34:11-31; Jn 10:11; 1 Pet 5:4; Jn 10:11-16.
147 LG 6; cf. 1 Cor 39; Rom 11:13-26; Mt 21:32-43 and parallels; Isa 51-7; Jn 15:1-5.
148 LG 6; Cf. 1 Cor 3:9; Mt 21:42 and parallels; Acts 4:11; 1 Pet 2:7; Ps 118:22; 1 Cor 3:11; 1 Tim 3:15; Eph 2:19-22; Rev 21:3; 1 Pet 2:5; Rev 21:1-2.
149 LG 6; Cf. Gal 4:26; Rev 12:17; 19:7; 21:2,9; 22:17; Eph 5:25-26,29.

>> http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p1.htm#I

 
glassjester

glassjester

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
No, they were not.
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But Christ did break the bread and give it to each of them, saying, "This is My body."
He also commanded them to continue doing this in memory of Him.
The Apostle Paul also instructs Christians to do this, as Christ did.
And Paul tells us that we who do this are of one body; that we participate in the body of Christ.

So The Twelve must be members of the body of Christ.
 
glassjester

glassjester

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
They make up lies to deceive the gullible and take their dough and have manipulative power over them.
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Who's in on the lie? Am I? Am I knowingly deceiving others for money and power?

Is it my parish priest? Does he know it's a lie?

The bishop? Pope?


Who is knowingly deceiving others for money, and who isn't?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
glassjester said:
But Christ did break the bread and give it to each of them, saying, "This is My body."
Click to expand...
What does that have to do with the body where there is neither JEW NOR GREEK?

You are mixing metaphors.

glassjester said:
He also commanded them to continue doing this in memory of Him.
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Sure, why not? Jesus told THEM that He was the bread of life; the bread from heaven; like manna.

glassjester said:
The Apostle Paul also instructs Christians to do this, as Christ did.
And Paul tells us that we who do this are of one body; that we participate in the body of Christ.

So The Twelve must be members of the body of Christ.
Click to expand...
No, that's just your confusion showing.

Why are the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL?
Do you not believe that?
Where does Paul fit in that?
Why are the names of the TWELVE apostles of the Lamb on the foundation of the New Jerusalem?
What happened to Paul?

Until you can understand the difference between God's prophetic program through Israel and His mystery kept secret since the world began, you cannot hope to understand these simple things.
 
Crucible

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
The Roman Catholic's mightiest mistake was declaring papal infallibility, which automatically put it at odds. First, the Greek Orthodox in the 11th Century, and then again with Europe in the 16th.
Primarily, it gave rise to the idea that Peter's seat was THE seat- the helipad where God lands and stirs Christendom, which caused the RCC to be both incredibly arrogant and astoundingly pontificating.
Nothing good has been wrought from it, which is in part why the Reformists deemed the papacy sons of perdition and the future seat of the Antichrist according to the descriptions of Revelation.
 
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