the church

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Cruciform said:
Then this must be the case as well:
99% works +
1% grace =
GRACE​

Excellent, then, it's all grace! :thumb:
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Aren't you always preaching logic to us? That was very illogical.

Paul makes it very clear that grace and works are mutually exclusive.
Rom 11:5-6 (AKJV/PCE)​
(11:5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (11:6) And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. ​

So it's 100% one or the other.
 
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musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Aren't you always preaching logic to us? That was very illogical.

Paul makes it very clear that grace and works are mutually exclusive.
Rom 11:5-6 (AKJV/PCE)​
(11:5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (11:6) And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. ​

So it's 100% one or the other.
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He's being tricky. Catholics have a totally different definition of grace.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Right Divider said:
Aren't you always preaching logic to us? That was very illogical.

Paul makes it very clear that grace and works are mutually exclusive.
Rom 11:5-6 (AKJV/PCE)​
(11:5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (11:6) And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. ​

So it's 100% one or the other.
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This is not accurate. The two are NOT mutually exclusive . .

For even though good works cannot produce grace, grace produces good works. Galatians 5:22-23
 
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Nang said:
This is not accurate. The two are NOT mutually exclusive . .

For even though good works cannot produce grace, grace produces good works. Galatians 5:22-23
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You're taking that out of context. Of course we are to do good works. Who would argue that?

The point is that our justification with God is not by works, it is by grace.
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

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the church teaches:
-that all are redeemed so we might be saved
-that anyone can choose to be saved
-that you have to do the work
-that Jesus is God....
many who depend solely on the bible miss at least one of these important teachings -
that is why we need the church -
that is why Jesus built His church on a rock
 
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chrysostom said:
the church teaches:
-that all are redeemed so we might be saved
-that anyone can choose to be saved
-that you have to do the work
-that Jesus is God....
many who depend solely on the bible miss at least one of these important teachings -
that is why we need the church -
that is why Jesus built His church on a rock
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SPAM reported!

So you think that God left something important out of the Bible? No wonder you don't take God's Word seriously.
 
Nang

Nang

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glassjester said:
He left Sola Scriptura out of the Bible.
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Hardly.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" II Timothy 3:16

Sola Scriptura, being inspired by God, is mankinds' final authority regarding the truths of God. (Sola Scriptura does not mean Christians are forbidden to read anything but the bible.)
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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Nang said:
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" II Timothy 3:16
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I notice the phrase "all Scripture," and not "only Scripture."
Nang said:
Sola Scriptura, being inspired by God, is mankinds' final authority regarding the truths of God.
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Scripture (not "Scripture only") is inspired by God. And nowhere in Scripture does Scripture say that Scripture is mankind's final authority in matters of faith, doctrine and morals.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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HisServant said:
The popes are irrelevant and stupid.... pretty obvious to everyone.

Grace is a gift.. it cannot respond to anything.
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The biggest blind spot in the vision of the grace people, is that the most wonderful visible, earthly expression of God's grace towards us is His Church, and I do mean the institution/organization/hierarchy/sacraments/mass.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Nihilo said:
I notice the phrase "all Scripture," and not "only Scripture."
Scripture (not "Scripture only") is inspired by God. And nowhere in Scripture does Scripture say that Scripture is mankind's final authority in matters of faith, doctrine and morals.
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The traditions of men are not inspired. The religious offices and teachings of magistrates, Bishops, Popes, etc. is not inspired. The findings of formal councils are not inspired. Confessions, creeds, and statements of faith are not inspired by God.

All of these are providential only . . .

Only as far as any of these submit to the God's written Word, do they have authority.

Sola Scriptura is the final authority and sole basis in a Christian's life of faith.
 
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