THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

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Body part
No! I am not equivocating. I have one thing in mind when I say Church.
Church is not a magic word. Capitalizing it is not Biblical.
It's you who tries to argue that when the New Testament mentions "Church" that it's something other than what I mean by it.
No, I'm NOT. That is ridiculous. I've shown you that the word CHURCH requires CONTEXT to determine its actual MEANING. The CHURCH in Acts 7:38 is NOT the SAME "church" as the church called the body of Christ (which began with the apostle Paul).
"Church" is a main character in the NT.
Fairy tale. The new TESTAMENT could not even begin until AFTER Christ's death (Hebrews 9:16-17). Therefore, the vast majority of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John cannot even be considered "new testament".
Along with Christ and John the Baptist and the Apostles, the Church is also prominent on the NT pages.
Christ was a Jew under the law.
John the Baptist was a Jew under the law.
The TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL were Jews under the law.

Paul tells the church, the body of Christ, that WE are NOT under the law.

That you cannot tell the different shows your religious blindness.
Especially when we know that things like elders /bishops /pastors /presbyters /overseers, are Church officeholders. So whenever we're talking about those guys, we're also talking about the Church. Not to mention Paul's favorite name for the Church: the Body of Christ.
Paul was the FIRST member of the body of Christ.
The TWELVE were members of the nation of Israel and NOT the body of Christ.
Yeah, it was something new, but it wasn't an institution.
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Peter is shown preaching the Gospel to Gentiles after receiving a vision from God.
Which gospel? He most certainly was NOT preaching the gospel of the grace of God to them.

And why did Peter need a VISION when Christ had already sent the twelve to all the world? I know the reason, but you apparently do not.
Peter was with Paul and Gentiles in Galatians 2, before some people of Israel arrived, touching off a verbal altercation between the two Apostles, one of them, the president of the Church.
There is NO SUCH OFFICE as "president of the Church". That is just more of you ridiculous RCC indoctrination contaminating your mind.
Note that in Galatians 2, Peter, James and John agreed to separate their ministries. PJ&J agreed NOT to go to the gentiles.
Since I'm not a Dispensationalist, I wonder sometimes about what it will be like when finally the nation of Israel as a body believes the Gospel, and converts to Christ. They're going to start going to church, you know. The question is open which church. The answer is not found in Dispenationalism, because Dispensationalism is apocalyptic, requiring a miraculous intervention for Israel to repent, but if that reading of the Bible is wrong, and incompatible with the Scripture, then all Dispenationalism is, is dumb. As in, mute; silent. There's a path for everyone except Israel, in Dispenationalism. Israel requires God Himself to reach down from heaven and set things right for us.
Seems that you simply reject the simple, plain and clear teaching of the Bible.
Us Catholics just think of them the same way we think of you Protestants, Christ taught us that we should treat those who don't listen to the Church, like publicans and prostitutes.
I'm not a "protestant", but I do agree with then that the Romanist "church" is an abomination.
That means, we all have human rights, given to us by God, and no matter how mad we are about you, we cannot morally deprive you of your authentic human rights.

In other words we're liberals, since liberalism is the philosophy that takes human rights as basically fundamental. Christ taught us to be liberals. Respect human rights.
Mat 15:24 KJV But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Rom 15:8 KJV Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

It does not matter what you call the office. Priests, pastors, bishops, presidents for all I care. But the office was created by Christ when He created the office of Church president and appointed Peter to the office.
Peter has nothing to do with the BODY OF CHRIST.
Peter is ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.
Christ established that institution, and in so doing he established the institution of the office of a bishop (cf. 1st Timothy 3:1 for where Paul mentions this office by name), because the Church president is always going to also be a member of the category of bishops, he's just going to be the bishop who's presiding over the entire Church. It's a big job, but at the same time, it's still just another pastor job, the president has to do all the things that the other bishops have to do too; he is the bishop of Rome as well, for one thing. The bishop of a city, is that city's senior pastor.
Lack of RIGHT DIVISION will continue to cause you great confusion.
It does not matter if Paul talks about them being priests, and about the order of Melchizedek. Paul talks about the Eucharist. That's more important than whether or not he ever says that Church pastors are priests. The Eucharist is an institution that has always been celebrated by priests. The bishops have always celebrated the Eucharist. The Eucharist is always celebrated because that's literally what Christ said to do. Melchizedek celebrated a shadow of the Eucharist when he and Abraham met. There are four separate accounts in the NT of Christ establishing the Eucharist and in each one He has bread and He has wine, and that's exactly what Melchizedek has when he and Abraham meet.
There is Israel and there is the body of Christ.
 
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beloved57

Well-known member
rd

Peter has nothing to do with the BODY OF CHRIST.

Peter nor scripture never said nothing like that, you making that up. Wasnt Peter an Apostle to the Body of Christ Eph 4:10-12

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

This seems to say that the Apostles were a Gift of Christ for the edification of the Body of Christ.
 

Right Divider

Body part
rd

Peter nor scripture never said nothing like that, you making that up. Wasnt Peter an Apostle to the Body of Christ Eph 4:10-12
No, Peter is not an apostle to the body of Christ. He is ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

This seems to say that the Apostles were a Gift of Christ for the edification of the Body of Christ.
You are READING INTO the scripture what you want it to say.

SOME apostles... SOME prophets.... etc. etc. not ALL.

In the BODY OF CHRIST there is no distinction between Jew and gentile. But Peter is ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.
Mat 19:28 KJV And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luk 22:29-30 KJV And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; (30) That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
John the Baptist calls Christ the Lamb. Paul says Christ is our Passover---he says it to Gentiles. Christ takes away the sins of the world, 1st Corinthians 15:3-4

The Church.

Dan, is "the Jerusalem which is above" in Gal 4:26, the same as "the heavenly Jerusalem" in Hebrews 12:22, and the "new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven" in Rev 21:2 ?
And I believe that they are different and I believe that it is impossible to tie Galatians to Hebrews 12:23-24 is what I believe and Robert C Brock in his book on Galatians has the best NOTES on your question . His notes should be on the internet .

As I have written , in the BODY CHRIST there are NO MALES or FEMALES and since we are part of CHRIST BODY , and Israel is never known as that .

Israel it never written as being part of the BODY OF CHRIST , never will inherit heaven as our INHERITENCE and will GOVERN ANGELS , in 1 Cor 6:2-3 .

When will you reply to GAL 3:28

dasn p
 
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beloved57

Well-known member
rd

No, Peter is not an apostle to the body of Christ.

Yeah Right Eph 4:11-12

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
 

beloved57

Well-known member
rg
Peter has nothing to do with the BODY OF CHRIST.
Peter is ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.
Thats figurative for the Church, the Body of Christ, the Twelve Tribes of Israel israel. The Apostles Doctrine/Gospel is used for the calling of the Elect, the Church to believe Jn 17:20-22

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their[The Aostles] word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
 

Right Divider

Body part
rd

Yeah Right Eph 4:11-12

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
SOME APOSTLES is not including the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
That is absolute and utter hogwash.
No its not. All that's figurative language, you have been duped. Jesus commissioned the Twelve for the in calling of His People from all Nations Matt 28:16-20

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

You confused, the disciples wont be sitting on 12 literal thrones judging people of one ethnicity. Please tell us what they going to be judging ?
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
And I believe that they are different and I believe that it is impossible to tie Galatians to Hebrews 12:23-24 is what I believe and Robert C Brock in his book on Galatians has the best NOTES on your question . His notes should be on the internet .
If you could just give me the gist? Or even quote what's pertinent?

As a test for reasonability, I don't know why anyone "new" to the Bible wouldn't think that Galatians's "the Jerusalem which is above" (Gal 4:26), "the heavenly Jerusalem" in Hebrews 12:22, and the "new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven" in Rev 21:2 aren't all the same thing.

And I'd add that this one thing that all these scriptures signify, sounds an awful lot like Isaiah 2:2 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills," and then, that scripture continues, "and all nations shall flow unto it."

And then I don't know why it shouldn't remind us of Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."
As I have written , in the BODY CHRIST there are NO MALES or FEMALES and since we are part of CHRIST BODY , and Israel is never known as that .

Israel it never written as being part of the BODY OF CHRIST , never will inherit heaven as our INHERITENCE and will GOVERN ANGELS , in 1 Cor 6:2-3 .

When will you reply to GAL 3:28
I think you mean this for @beloved57 and not me.
 

Right Divider

Body part
And I'd add that this one thing that all these scriptures signify, sounds an awful lot like Isaiah 2:2 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills," and then, that scripture continues, "and all nations shall flow unto it."

And then I don't know why it shouldn't remind us of Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."
"All nations" does not necessarily mean every member of every nation. Don't forget that the Jews (Israelites) were scattered into all nations. It is clear that the twelve apostles did not go to every member of all nations indiscriminately.
Act 11:19 KJV Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
rd

All nations" does not necessarily mean every member of every nation

Of course not. It means Gods Sheep/Elect out from all different nations i.e Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Knowing you, you believe these are all ethnic jews dont you ?
 

DAN P

Well-known member
rd



Of course not. It means Gods Sheep/Elect out from all different nations i.e Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Knowing you, you believe these are all ethnic jews dont you ?
And there are no SHEEP in Rev 5:9 , period !!!!

Where there are SHEEP is found in Matt 25:31:34 and the following verses , 34-46 says where the GOATS will go to EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT !!

Neither Matt 25 nor Rev 5:9 has HAPPENED YET , can you believe that !!!!!

So when does that THEN HAPPEN ??

Give it your BEST SHOT ??

dan p
 

beloved57

Well-known member
And there are no SHEEP in Rev 5:9 , period !!!!

Where there are SHEEP is found in Matt 25:31:34 and the following verses , 34-46 says where the GOATS will go to EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT !!

Neither Matt 25 nor Rev 5:9 has HAPPENED YET , can you believe that !!!!!

So when does that THEN HAPPEN ??

Give it your BEST SHOT ??

dan p
Yeah right, thats pure presumptuous for you to declare !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
And in Matt 10:6 , the 12 disciples are to go RATHER to the LOST SHEEP of Israel !!

So where are these LOST SHEEP NOW ?

Are you ONE of these lost sheep ?

When will these LOST SHEEP be found ??

dan p
Even still thats pure presumptuous for you to declare !
 

Agent

New member
The body is a unit, though it is composed of many parts. And although its parts are many, they all form one body. So it is with Christ.
1 Cor 12:27
The phrase “the Body of Christ” is a common New Testament metaphor for the Church (all those who are truly saved).
2 Cor 11:2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.
Again in Eph 5
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
Then another in Rev 19
7 Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.

We are arguing over semantics!
 
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