The Burning Bush

[Ben Masada]

Here are Paul's very own words spoken long after the disciples were called Christians... But Paul said, Indeed I am a man, a Jew of Tarsus, of Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city. And I beg you, allow me to speak to the people. Acts 21.39[/I]

Thus...you have no choice but to acknowledge that you adhere to a supposed 'replacement theology' instigated by a Jew.

You are not studying your own NT. That was the year when Paul had to appeal to Caesar because the Jerusalem Jews could not take him any more. By that time Paul had already overturned several of the Nazarene synagogues by laying many of his cuckoo eggs in the synagogues of the Jews. He appealed to Caesar, was sent to Rome and it was the last of him.

 

[Apple7]

You are not studying your own NT. That was the year when Paul had to appeal to Caesar because the Jerusalem Jews could not take him any more. By that time Paul had already overturned several of the Nazarene synagogues by laying many of his cuckoo eggs in the synagogues of the Jews. He appealed to Caesar, was sent to Rome and it was the last of him.

You must deal with what scripture states - not run from it.

Paul claims, repeatedly, that he is a Jew.

So....if you want to pin your 'replacement theology' on Paul, then you have absolutely no choice but to admit that it is really 'Jewish Replacement Theology'...

 

[Ben Masada]

You must deal with what scripture states - not run from it.

Paul claims, repeatedly, that he is a Jew.

So....if you want to pin your 'replacement theology' on Paul, then you have absolutely no choice but to admit that it is really 'Jewish Replacement Theology'...

So, Paul claims repeatedly that he is a Jew! Are you a psychic medium? I ask because Paul has been dead for about 2000 years already. Unless he was another one who raised from the grave! I didn't find that in the NT when I read it. Regarding Replacement Theology, if you have ever read the NT, the only reason that comes to
mind is that you have no idea what it is.

 

[Apple7]

So, Paul claims repeatedly that he is a Jew! Are you a psychic medium? I ask because Paul has been dead for about 2000 years already. Unless he was another one who raised from the grave! I didn't find that in the NT when I read it. Regarding Replacement Theology, if you have ever read the NT, the only reason that comes to
mind is that you have no idea what it is.

If you can show us where Paul states in scripture, in the first person singular, that he is Christian, then you may have a case.

But, you cannot.

In fact, Paul claims repeatedly that he is a Jew.

Thus…if you want to keep pumping and promoting your ‘replacement theology’ as if it had some magical power, then you have to admit that it came from a fellow Jew.

Period.

You can’t cherry-pick….call it a dream state….or ignore your way out of your predicament.

You promote ‘Jewish Replacement Theology’…and rightly so.

 

[Crucible]

Replacement theology is not only a theology, but a dogma. You can go ask any Catholic, Calvinist, Lutheran, or any traditional or otherwise historical branch of Christianity and they will tell you exactly the same thing.

I don't know how these 'Dispensationalists' came to the conclusions they have, but it's extremely unorthodox- and you don't here that too often because many parts of the Bible Belt have been seized by contrary, contemporary belief.

 

[patrick jane]

So, Paul claims repeatedly that he is a Jew! Are you a psychic medium? I ask because Paul has been dead for about 2000 years already. Unless he was another one who raised from the grave! I didn't find that in the NT when I read it. Regarding Replacement Theology, if you have ever read the NT, the only reason that comes to
mind is that you have no idea what it is.

Paul was a Jew. Ben, you wouldn't know the NT if it bit you in the face -

 

[Ben Masada]

If you can show us where Paul states in scripture, in the first person singular, that he is Christian, then you may have a case.

But, you cannot.

In fact, Paul claims repeatedly that he is a Jew.

Thus…if you want to keep pumping and promoting your ‘replacement theology’ as if it had some magical power, then you have to admit that it came from a fellow Jew.

Period.

You can’t cherry-pick….call it a dream state….or ignore your way out of your predicament.

You promote ‘Jewish Replacement Theology’…and rightly so.

Paul is no longer any thing at all; he is dead. If you can't understand such a simple thing, how will you understand if I prove to you that he had been a Christian? And how can one claim that he is a Jew in the grave? Read Ecclesiastes 9:5,6.The whole Pauline Letter to the Galatians is all about Replacement Theology.
The whole book of Hebrews is about Replacement Theology. The whole of the NT is about Replacement Theology. That's what the gospel of Paul is all about.

 

[Ben Masada]

Paul was a Jew. Ben, you wouldn't know the NT if it bit you in the face -

Patrick, you do not have what it takes to discuss your own NT with a Jew who has read it more than several times. I didn't even need to read it more than 2 or 3 times to be ready to discuss with any Christian. There is no learning when you read it under the dominant power of Christian preconceived notions.

 

[Nick M]

Exodus 3

1Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”

4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”

And he said, “Here I am.”

A miracle to make the bush not burn while inflamed or a vision of flames is actually secondary. However, the text tells us.

 

[Ben Masada]

Exodus 3:1 Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”

4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”

And he said, “Here I am.”

A miracle to make the bush not burn while inflamed or a vision of flames is actually secondary. However, the text tells us.

That was not a miracle but a natural phenomenon. It has been demonstrated that bushes in apparent flame in the desert is a common view to wanderers. Moses was a man of the palace in Egypt. He was not aware of that phenomenon. But his mind was too busy with what was going on with his people in Egypt. That's when he had a vision when HaShem would give him the mission to go to Egypt and redeem Israel through the Exodus.

 

[Nick M]

That was not a miracle but a natural phenomenon.

"
Demonstrate it. And I don't mean a plant called the "burning bush" because of orange in the wood. The text says "fire".

 

[patrick jane]

Patrick, you do not have what it takes to discuss your own NT with a Jew who has read it more than several times. I didn't even need to read it more that 2 or 3 times to be ready to discuss with any Christian. There is no learning when you read it under the dominant power of Christian preconceived notions.

You can't discuss the Torah

 

[Wick Stick]

That was Paul's nice try to think that he would remain a Jew after he founded an anti-Jewish religion. According to Jewish tradition, when a Jew deserts Judaism to become a member of another faith, especially so anti-Jewish as Christianity has been to the Jews throughout History by means of pogroms, blood libels, Crusades, Inquisition and the Holocaust he ceased being a Jew. Paul was no longer a Jew from that day in Antioch when Christians started being called Christians for the first time as a result of Paul's teaching for a whole year in the Nazarene Synagogue of the Jews. Read Acts 11:26.

There is quite a bit of debate at this board about whether Christianity is a wholly different religion from Judaism, or not. Also about when/who created the split.

For my part, it certainly appears that Jesus did not create a new religion, but was rather seeking a reformation within Judaism. His core teachings include
(1) an abrogation of the vast and unwieldy body of case law (much of Oral Law) that had been added to Torah,
(2) an elevation of the Rabbi and the obsolence of the corrupt priesthood,
(3) a vastly simplified way of interpreting Torah (e.g. according to intended results),
(4) a dereliction of patriarchal genealogies for the purpose of establishing Jewish blood, (being replaced by a system of judging on merit as regards Torah observance), and
(5) the abrogation of the entire sacrificial system, in favor of a once-for-all sacrifice.

Note that Judaism actually had reforms in the decades after his death in most of these areas. (2) was reformed exactly as noted above. Item (4) was reformed later, but with a system different than proposed. Items (1) and (3) were addressed through the addition of diacritical marks to the Torah, eliminating the vast majority of diverse readings.

As for Paul, his teachings to Gentiles do not appear to me to be a new invention, either, but rather a restatement (albeit an unnecessarily verbose and complex restatement) of the traditional teachings regarding goyim upholding righteousness. There is some blurriness between Jesus' (4) above and Paul's teachings, and I am not sure whether to attribute that to Paul by design, or to put it down to a corruption of his teachings by his followers after his death.

 

[Wick Stick]

Demonstrate it. And I don't mean a plant called the "burning bush" because of orange in the wood. The text says "fire".

(1) Have a bush in an area of active vulcanism.
(2) Coat said bush in mud/clay (mudslides due to active vulcanism).
(3) Have a vent of flammable gases in the area (again that vulcanism).
(4) Set it on fire.

The actual plant burns away, but the mud/clay that encases it is instead hardened into a hollow, bush-shaped ceramic, leaving a fireproof "bush" which will continue to burn for as long as the flammable gases continue venting through the area.

Want to help me make one? I reckon we could start a new religion if we wanted.

 

[daqq]

(1) Have a bush in an area of active vulcanism.
(2) Coat said bush in mud/clay (mudslides due to active vulcanism).
(3) Have a vent of flammable gases in the area (again that vulcanism).
(4) Set it on fire.

The actual plant burns away, but the mud/clay that encases it is instead hardened into a hollow, bush-shaped ceramic, leaving a fireproof "bush" which will continue to burn for as long as the flammable gases continue venting through the area.

Want to help me make one? I reckon we could start a new religion if we wanted.

Lol, but Moses already made one according to the pattern shown to him.
I think Ben calls it the Menorah . . .

 

[Nick M]

So, no demonstrations?

 

[Nick M]

I guess not.

 

[patrick jane]

(1) Have a bush in an area of active vulcanism.
(2) Coat said bush in mud/clay (mudslides due to active vulcanism).
(3) Have a vent of flammable gases in the area (again that vulcanism).
(4) Set it on fire.

The actual plant burns away, but the mud/clay that encases it is instead hardened into a hollow, bush-shaped ceramic, leaving a fireproof "bush" which will continue to burn for as long as the flammable gases continue venting through the area.

Want to help me make one? I reckon we could start a new religion if we wanted.

:loser:

 

[Wick Stick]

:loser:

Are you telling me this wouldn't make a fun weekend project? I was thinking it would be quite handsome in my fire pit. Maybe when it gets cooler.

Or maybe a church project for the teens? We could actually have a whole series of projects where we re-create Biblical miracles. I'm still working on how to make the sun stand still in sky, though...

 

[Apple7]

Paul is no longer any thing at all; he is dead. If you can't understand such a simple thing, how will you understand if I prove to you that he had been a Christian? And how can one claim that he is a Jew in the grave?

Its called referring to what is written in scripture.

Paul refers to himself as a Jew...not a Christian.

You can't impress your worldview into this scriptural fact.

Read Ecclesiastes 9:5,6.The whole Pauline Letter to the Galatians is all about Replacement Theology.

Jewish Replacement Theology.

The whole book of Hebrews is about Replacement Theology. The whole of the NT is about Replacement Theology.

Hebrews is aptly named for the Hebrew scripture to which it refers...and that is as a Triune God.

That's what the gospel of Paul is all about.

The term 'gospel' means 'the good news of Jesus Christ as our Savior'.

So...again...rightly so...