drbrumley
Well-known member
1 Thessalonians 4:11 (NIV)
11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you,
:think:
The Bible's Criminal Code
- Thread starter Jefferson
- Start date
1 Thessalonians 4:11 (NIV)
11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you,
:think:
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
So why do you think Judeo-Christian based civilzations eventually had to criminalize recreational drug use?.
I'll guarantee you this Doc: There is nothing "quiet" about a drug addict's life.
Once again: Why do you think Judeo-Christian based civilzations eventually had to criminalize recreational drug use?.
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
So why do you think Judeo-Christian based civilzations eventually had to criminalize recreational drug use?.
I'll guarantee you this Doc: There is nothing "quiet" about a drug addict's life.
Once again: Why do you think Judeo-Christian based civilzations eventually had to criminalize recreational drug use?.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Answered...
1 Thessalonians 4:11 (NIV)
11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you,
Nothing there about a drug addict.
Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Once again: Why do you think Judeo-Christian based civilzations eventually had to criminalize recreational drug use?.
(aCW smacks himself in the head for not seeing the answer to all of the world's probems: The L/libertarian doctrine of "When it comes to my immoral behavior, MIND YOUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS!").
...or murderers, robbers, pedophiles, etc. etc. etc.
Once again: Why do you think Judeo-Christian based civilzations eventually had to criminalize recreational drug use?.
(aCW smacks himself in the head for not seeing the answer to all of the world's probems: The L/libertarian doctrine of "When it comes to my immoral behavior, MIND YOUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS!").
...or murderers, robbers, pedophiles, etc. etc. etc.
drbrumley
Well-known member
I see, so Paul gives bad advise according to you?
Heavens no Doc, the Apostle Paul gave the best advice ever when it comes to the role of government.
"For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."
Now tell me what is "good" about governments that allow it's citizens to shoot up heroin and smoke crack cocaine Doc.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Heavens no Doc, the Apostle Paul gave the best advice ever when it comes to the role of government.
"For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."
Now tell me what is "good" about governments that allow it's citizens to shoot up heroin and smoke crack cocaine Doc.
Agreed! Doesn't answer my post about 1 thess. though.
Governments were not created in the same way the family or the church were created. Paul is meaning though governments do not operate out of God's perview. God isn't surprised by what they do.
I will note that the Gospels tell us a lot about governments. That's satan's domain.
Immoral behavior is the business of a righteous government.
There are numerous verses in Holy Scripture showing what the role of goverment is (and they all are pretty much the same with what the Apostle Paul said in Romans 13:4: 'Government is to do good as seen through the eyes of God').
If you seem to think that civil government has another role other than what I've posted, please do share (and try your best not to go into Holy Scripture again and use some verse that has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about here).
You Libertarians definitely know a lot about Satan's domain Doc.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Still awaiting an answer to 1 thess.
JosephR
New member
You don't think it's a witch hunt here? I am pretty sure the pharma it is talking about is ingredients for said sorcerers potions... Think Sampson and Delilah .
Christian Liberty
Well-known member
As far as I know, there are no theonomists other than Enyart (who doesn't count, considering theonomy is a Reformed postmillennial movement predominately) who think drug use is actually criminalized in those passages. I'm attempting to find something from Bahnsen.
Drug use is of course morally prohibited just as drunkennness is, but never made criminal.
Telling is that Bob Enyart doesn't even quote scripture to make his case, instead he simply talks about the negative effects of pot (as if the only way anyone could support legalizing it is if they thought it was good
)Not theonomist. But quoting actual theonomists to expose fake, anti-libertarian pretend theonomists is fun
Joel is a theonomist, and he couldn't find a prohibition in the Bible. How "nutty" is that, to not want to criminalize something that God never made legally criminal? lol.
Covered under rape.
Not a theonomist. But I respect them. You don't.
Quote:
Note in the article how the Libertarian nutcase Joel McDurmon wants prostitution legal as well.
He's a drug pushing nutcase that hides behind the Bible to push immoral behavior.
I'm trying to find in the Bible where driving an 18 wheeler down 1-5 while high on crack cocaine was criminalized, but I doubt that I'll find it.
Sexual sins are discussed repeatedly throughout Holy Scripture and just because things like prostitution, sadomasochism, pedophilia and pornography aren't specifically named, doesn't mean that gives perverts like Joel McDurmon a license to peddle filth.
Quote:
You L/libertarians might note (obviously in delight) that the Bible says nothing about criminalizing pedophilia either.
Sorry Jr., but rape occurs when there isn't consent given. Now if you can show me anywhere in Holy Scripture where it gives a specific age where a person can't give sexual consent, then you might have a point.
Good luck with finding that.
Note in the article how the Libertarian nutcase Joel McDurmon wants prostitution legal as well.
He's a drug pushing nutcase that hides behind the Bible to push immoral behavior.
I'm trying to find in the Bible where driving an 18 wheeler down 1-5 while high on crack cocaine was criminalized, but I doubt that I'll find it.
Sexual sins are discussed repeatedly throughout Holy Scripture and just because things like prostitution, sadomasochism, pedophilia and pornography aren't specifically named, doesn't mean that gives perverts like Joel McDurmon a license to peddle filth.
Quote:
You L/libertarians might note (obviously in delight) that the Bible says nothing about criminalizing pedophilia either.
Sorry Jr., but rape occurs when there isn't consent given. Now if you can show me anywhere in Holy Scripture where it gives a specific age where a person can't give sexual consent, then you might have a point.
Good luck with finding that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Immoral behavior is the business of a righteous government.
I discussed the role of civil government in my WHMBR! thread quite sometime ago.
If you would like to come over and refute this post
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3310948&postcount=4195
and/or question God's 3 Divine Institutions:
http://www.westwalkerchurchofchrist.org/sermons/2008/THREEDIVINEINSTITUTIONS.pdf
you know where to find me.
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Immoral behavior is the business of a righteous government.
I discussed the role of civil government in my WHMBR! thread quite sometime ago.
If you would like to come over and refute this post
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3310948&postcount=4195
and/or question God's 3 Divine Institutions:
http://www.westwalkerchurchofchrist.org/sermons/2008/THREEDIVINEINSTITUTIONS.pdf
you know where to find me.
musterion
Well-known member
I'm for drug criminalization. Always have been. I have no interest in defending or explaining why; seems it should be common sense. But it's a losing issue as our formerly, relatively cohesive society erodes, as are all such positions.
But I'm not shocked nor surprised. It's all destined to burn but only after it has sufficiently rotted from the inside out. As foretold.
At what exact point God says "Enough," none can say. But we're given clues. That this discussion even occurs is one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
You must have me confused with the Jr. Libertarian, who on every other Friday is a theonomist.
By the way: You seem ashamed to stand up against drug criminalization. Why is that?
There are a lot of drug pushers that call themselves ""L/libertarian" (or in the case of Jr., his cult of the week is theonomy) that don't have an ounce of common sense and need to have it literally shoved down their throats.
So what are you going to tell your Maker on your judgment day when He asks:
"Why did you give up on Me?"
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
You must have me confused with the Jr. Libertarian, who on every other Friday is a theonomist.
By the way: You seem ashamed to stand up against drug criminalization. Why is that?
There are a lot of drug pushers that call themselves ""L/libertarian" (or in the case of Jr., his cult of the week is theonomy) that don't have an ounce of common sense and need to have it literally shoved down their throats.
So what are you going to tell your Maker on your judgment day when He asks:
"Why did you give up on Me?"
musterion
Well-known member
Don't put words in God's mouth. For your veiled threat to be valid, you'd need to demonstrate where the apostle Paul ever said members of the Body of Christ (which I am not convinced that you are) are to work and expect to redeem the world itself, rather than the people IN the world.
Your kind seems to be the 180° opposite of libertarians but if either of you got your way, we'd all end up in the exact same place. They promote license leading to lawlessness and chaos, which leads to loss of liberty, dictatorship, and mass deaths. You promote a Christianized theonomy that would lead to loss of liberty, dictatorship, and mass deaths...only more quickly.
Only real difference between you and them is, they're gullible and have believed attractive lies. You, I suspect, are much more aware of where your path would lead and you actually look forward to it.
Fe fi fo fum, I smell a Lib-er-tar-e-un.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
So what are you going to tell your Maker on your judgment day when He asks:
"Why did you give up on Me?"
God is clear throughout Holy Scripture what He intends for mankind to do, starting here in Genesis 1:28
God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
(Oh my, musty is trying to play both sides of the fence. First he badmouths his fellow Lib-er-tar-e-uns, and then he accuses me of being some sort of OT theonomist who (based on what I know of theonomists) want to use Old Testament laws to punish people with (i.e. stoning 14 year old homosexuals to death, etc.).
I guess I missed your answer to my question in your little rant there musty, here it is again:
So what are you going to tell your Maker on your judgment day when He asks:
"Why did you give up on Me?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
So what are you going to tell your Maker on your judgment day when He asks:
"Why did you give up on Me?"
God is clear throughout Holy Scripture what He intends for mankind to do, starting here in Genesis 1:28
God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
(Oh my, musty is trying to play both sides of the fence. First he badmouths his fellow Lib-er-tar-e-uns, and then he accuses me of being some sort of OT theonomist who (based on what I know of theonomists) want to use Old Testament laws to punish people with (i.e. stoning 14 year old homosexuals to death, etc.).
I guess I missed your answer to my question in your little rant there musty, here it is again:
So what are you going to tell your Maker on your judgment day when He asks:
"Why did you give up on Me?"
Last edited:
Christian Liberty
Well-known member
I don't even know how to respond to this. Its literally that dumb.
Why should that be illegal?
If God wanted to criminalize something, don't you think he would have told you so?
A prohibition on pedophilia is implicit in the prohibition of rape. On the other hand, I'm unaware of anything in the OT that would indirectly suggest that prostitution or pornography should be criminalized. If you can, feel free to find me one.
I'm not sure what exactly the line is or if its the same for everyone. Its definitely a "fuzzy line" type of issue. Nonetheless, I think its clear that children cannot consent. And the civil government, as the righteous bearer of the sword of justice, has a responsibility to defend innocent rape victims.
I mostly agree with you, but why does it have to be just the apostle Paul? What about the rest of the Bible?
Also, why would you support drug criminalization? Contrary to your statement, it isn't "obvious" why. And, it seems that to a limited extent, in saying you support imprisoning or otherwise punishing the drug user for his personal health choices rather than teaching him the gospel, you're doing what aCW is doing.