the bible = the tree of the knowledge of good and evil <> Jesus = the tree of life

[MichaelEden]

the bible = the tree of the knowledge of good and evil <> Jesus = the tree of life

The bible

It is a book containing the knowledge of good and evil.

The forbidden fruit was not an apple. The fruit of a tree is also paper. And upon the pages of the bible is the knowledge of good and evil. The bible is poisoned with the knowledge of evil.

Ritualistic animal sacrifices, ceremonies incorporating the blood of dead animals, superstitious numbers, curses, evil spirits, dark prophecies... all in the bible.

Plotting, conspiracy, mass-murder, betrayal, genocide, slavery, suffering, wars... all in the bible.

A book is not 'Holy' if it contains the knowledge of evil, Satan, the devil, demons...

It is darkness. It is contaminated. It is unclean. It is poison.

Religion is the church of the poison mind. Minds poisoned by the knowledge of evil. People are deceived by religion.

The kingdom of God is within us all. Not within the pages of a book containing the knowledge of evil. I have recently shut it for good. I will not touch, nor taste of it again.

Because of Jesus Christ, I'm back in the land of the living. I've torn off my fig-leaf, and am returning to Eden. I am who God made me to be. The shame, guilt, and confusion is past-tense.

Thank You Jesus.

The Tree of Life = Jesus Christ

Eat freely from this tree and be saved.

Love,

Michael111

 

[!!!!First]

I've torn off my fig-leaf, and am returning to Eden. I am who God made me to be.

So how long have you been living at a natualist's colony? - Can you forgive me for teasing you?

Keep posting and keep explaining - hope the weather is warm where you live

!!!!First

 

[Clete]

Re: the bible = the tree of the knowledge of good and evil <> Jesus = the tree of life

Re: the bible = the tree of the knowledge of good and evil <> Jesus = the tree of life

Originally posted by MichaelEden

The bible

It is a book containing the knowledge of good and evil.

The forbidden fruit was not an apple. The fruit of a tree is also paper. And upon the pages of the bible is the knowledge of good and evil. The bible is poisoned with the knowledge of evil.

Any book that contains the knowledge of the devil is dangerous.

Ritualistic animal sacrifices, ceremonies incorporating the blood of dead animals, superstitious numbers, curses, evil spirits, dark prophecies... all in the bible.

Plotting, conspiracy, mass-murder, betrayal, genocide, slavery, suffering, wars... all in the bible.

Religion is the church of the poison mind. Minds poisoned by the knowledge of evil. People are deceived by religion.

The kingdom of God is within us all. Not within the pages of a book containing the knowledge of evil. I have recently shut it for good. I will not touch, nor taste of it again.

Because of Jesus Christ, I'm back in the land of the living. I've torn off my fig-leaf, and am returning to Eden. I am who God made me to be. The shame, guilt, and confusion is past-tense.



Thank You Jesus.

The Tree of Life = Jesus Christ.

Freedom. Liberation. Love.

Eat freely from this tree and be saved.

Interesting topic!

You are correct in one respect, but you've overstated it by about a mile and a half at least.

First of all The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is itself spoken of in the Bible, as is the Tree of Life, and Jesus and so your argument is somewhat self defeating.
That having been said however, you are partially correct.
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is a symbol of the law. It is the law that is the knowledge of good and evil, and the law is contained within the pages of the Bible.
Further, it should not be assumed that because the law gives us knowledge of evil that it is itself evil. In fact it is quite the opposite; the law is a description of God’s righteous character. It is the standard by which we are judged because our father (Adam) placed himself (and us by extension) under its authority when he ate of The Tree in the Garden of Eden. If we fall short of its standard in the slightest degree we are subject to its righteous punishment.
Thank God for His Son, The Lord Jesus, who came to be one of us, who lived a sinless life, who bleed and died in our place, and who conquered death and rose on the third day never to taste death again so that we might have victory in Him! Praise Him above all, for without Him we are less than the dust of the ground and doomed for eternity!

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Turbo]

Well said, Clete! :first: POTD

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by Turbo

Well said, Clete! :first: POTD

Wow!

Thank you!

It always blows me away when you guys honor me like this. I really don't feel worthy of it!

A big thank you goes out to Bob Enyart on this one. I would know virtually nothing of The Law and Grace if not for his ministry. And more specifically The Plot!

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer

Wow!

Thank you!

It always blows me away when you guys honor me like this. I really don't feel worthy of it!

A big thank you goes out to Bob Enyart on this one. I would know virtually nothing of The Law and Grace if not for his ministry. And more specifically The Plot!

Resting in Him,
Clete

:ha: another enyartian cult member.

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by Knight

:ha: another Enyartian cult member.

You’d better believe it!

Knight, have you ever considered giving Bob his own smiley? I'd bet it would get a lot of use around here!

Clete

 

[Servo]

Where did the tree go?

Where did the tree go?

Ezekiel 31


1 Now it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2"Son of man, say to Pharaoh king of Egypt and to his multitude:


"Whom are you like in your greatness?
3Indeed Assyria was a cedar in Lebanon,
With fine branches that shaded the forest,
And of high stature;
And its top was among the thick boughs.
4The waters made it grow;
Underground waters gave it height,
With their rivers running around the place where it was planted,
And sent out rivulets to all the trees of the field.


5"Therefore its height was exalted above all the trees of the field;
Its boughs were multiplied,
And its branches became long because of the abundance of water,
As it sent them out.
6All the birds of the heavens made their nests in its boughs;
Under its branches all the beasts of the field brought forth their young;
And in its shadow all great nations made their home.


7"Thus it was beautiful in greatness and in the length of its branches,
Because its roots reached to abundant waters.
8The cedars in the garden of God could not hide it;
The fir trees were not like its boughs,
And the chestnut[1] trees were not like its branches;
No tree in the garden of God was like it in beauty.
9I made it beautiful with a multitude of branches,
So that all the trees of Eden envied it,
That were in the garden of God.'


10"Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "Because you have increased in height, and it set its top among the thick boughs, and its heart was lifted up in its height, 11therefore I will deliver it into the hand of the mighty one of the nations, and he shall surely deal with it; I have driven it out for its wickedness. 12And aliens, the most terrible of the nations, have cut it down and left it; its branches have fallen on the mountains and in all the valleys; its boughs lie broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the peoples of the earth have gone from under its shadow and left it.


13"On its ruin will remain all the birds of the heavens,
And all the beasts of the field will come to its branches--


14"So that no trees by the waters may ever again exalt themselves for their height, nor set their tops among the thick boughs, that no tree which drinks water may ever be high enough to reach up to them.


"For they have all been delivered to death,
To the depths of the earth,
Among the children of men who go down to the Pit.'


15"Thus says the Lord GOD: "In the day when it went down to hell, I caused mourning. I covered the deep because of it. I restrained its rivers, and the great waters were held back. I caused Lebanon to mourn for it, and all the trees of the field wilted because of it. 16I made the nations shake at the sound of its fall, when I cast it down to hell together with those who descend into the Pit; and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, were comforted in the depths of the earth. 17They also went down to hell with it, with those slain by the sword; and those who were its strong arm dwelt in its shadows among the nations.
18"To which of the trees in Eden will you then be likened in glory and greatness? Yet you shall be brought down with the trees of Eden to the depths of the earth; you shall lie in the midst of the uncircumcised, with those slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude,' says the Lord GOD."

 

[geralduk]

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil canot be a symbol of the LAW.
For the LAW gives knowledge or convicts of SIN .
Paul also said that the law was given for the lawless or unrightous.

First there was a tree and it was SPECIFIC and planted in the midst of the garden.
Whatever 'type' of tree it was it cannot be a SYMBOL.
For if you accept that it was a symbol then you must also accept that the tree of LIFE was one as well.
This clearly is not the case as can be seen in the book of revaltion.
One cannot partake of a symbol only of REALITY.

It is a tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil.
We do not get a knowledge of good by the law but of sin.
Secondly they ALREADY knew what was GOOD to DO and what was EVIL to DO.
In that God had told them...
"of ALL the trees in the garden you may FREELY eat...."
This then INCLUDED the tree of LIFE.
By so saying God told them what was GOOD to eat and therefore to DO.
God gave man the PERFECT liberty then, to DO GOOD.
bUT OF THE KNOWLEDGE of good and evil thou shalt not eat for in the day ye do ye shall surtely die"
Thus God ytold them what was EVIL to eat and therefore to DO.
Some seeking to justyfy themselves say then why did God put the tree in the garden.that thye should not eat?
Well if nothing else it is written that God PLANTED the garden "east of Eden"
Is it not then GODS garden NOT MANS?
and who is man that says He cannot plant in His garden that which pleases Him?
There si something else we can know.
That is by so saying what He did to man.
He revealed His ETERNAL will for man.
That is that he should LIVE and NOT die.
if it was otherwise He "would have told them"
But it is confirmed under the LAW of Moses.
When He said to them "this day i have put before you life and death,choose LIFE"
We might argue that this confirms the nature of the tree as being unto the law.
No it doesnt.
For when we look at the gospels we find the Lord saying that "the devil has come to kill to streal and to destroy but I have come that you might have LIFE and life more abundantly"
For did He not come to seek and to save that which was lost?
Thus that which was LOST in the garden is RESTORED and more IN CHRIST.
AND ARE RECONCILED to God by the blood of HIS cross.

So man was created PERFECT in the life he was given and was without sin.
and therefore DEATH was not in the world.
and when God reated man He said "let us make man in our own image"
and though it is spoken later yet within this verse is wrapped up the truth "That man shall not LIVE by bread alone but by every Word that PROCCEEDETH FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD"

Thus man though had nourishment for the BODY by the things that he
ate.
Yet in truth LIVED by that WORD that said which was GOOD TO EAT and which was EVIL to eat.
and while he "kept the Word of His patience" He LIVED and did not DIE.
But there came a time while "man slept' that the woman was tempted by the devil.
Not directly but by a QUESTION so constituted that it drew her into a lie.

MANY QUESTIONS IN THESE FORUMS ARE OF A SIMILAR NATURE.

So with all the APEARENCE of one seeking the truth he got her into conversation.

"HATH GOD SAID......."?


AND then first with a SLANDER on GODS character(many do that here as well)
Then by subtle argument The devil CHANGED the TRUTH into a LIE by the ADDITION of just one word"NOT"
and she 'listened' to it and accpeted what was sown in her mind and by doing REJECTED the WORD of God.
and by so doing became BLIND to the TRUE nature OF HE WHO WAS SPEAKING TO HER and of the tree and the consequences of eating from it.

and she began to LOOK at the tree that it was GOOD to eat.
and REASONED that it would "make her wise"
So in rejecting what God had told her was GOOD AND EVIL she made up her own mind and according to her senses "did that which was right in her own eyes"

Thus was the fall of man and which man is STILL doing.
and it would seem most of the church as well.
For if you went by these forums men determine what is truth by thier OWN reasoning and what seems RIGHT TO THEM.

Some again seekign to justyfy themselves then say well if God knows all things then it was Gods will .
This clearly is FOLLY for the same reasons already laid out.
In that God CLEARLY told them HIS will.
As He does to US.

What then are we to make of it all?
Well if you ask a GOOD question ON THE FOUNDATION of FAITH and trust in God.
Then you will sonner or later GET A GOOD ANSWER TO IT!

Coming to the same point I came to ask this question..and you have to 'listen'closely to it.

WHY if they would have NOT died AND CONTINUED on LIVING had they NOT eaten of the tree ,was there a tree of LIFE which though they had had free acces to BEFORE they had eaten but had NOT after "lest THEY LIVE FOREVER in thier sin"

The only conclusion possible is that the LIFE they had when created was CORRUPTABLE.
Not that God created them corrupt nor were they corrupted.
But that the life they had COULD be CORRUPTED.
and to KEEP them from CORRUPTION God gave them His WORD that they might live.

It folows then that as God had given them FREE ACCESS to the tree of life"you may freely eat" then it was (and is) the ETERNAL will of God that in the fullness of time they would become partakers of the tree of LIFE.
But what LIFE was this?
ETERNAL life. UNCORRUPTABLE LIFE.

Thus it folows that Gods will was(and is) THAT MAN should OVERCOME temptation and the devil and PUT OFF CORRUPTION and put on INCORRUPTION.

Did not JESUS SPEAK OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD as like unto a man who had two sons and one sought his inheritence BEFORE THE TIME normaly apointed?

So before man got to the tree of LIFE the devil got him eating of the tree of 'death'
Often when men are seeking the truth today men of false religion will lead them astray with empty promises and false hope.
and they conclude by thier own reasoning that it is true but thier 'light' is in fact "great darkness"

If he had done this submitted to the WORD of God and RESISTED the devil then he would have known also what is good and what is evil.
in a way that he could not have known any other way.
Not by being overcome with evil but by overcoming it.
But he would have STILL LIVED!

bUT WHERE as the FIRST Adam failed in a PARADISE.
The LAST Adam conquered in a WILDERNESS.
"and where as through one mans disobedience..........."
How much more then though one mans obedience......."

in conclusion then.
When a perfson gets 'saved' he enters into that ETERNAL WILL of God preordained from before the foundations of the world.
Our salvation then is no second guess of God nor a reaction to the fall of man.
AND WE CAN look BACK to the VERY BEGINNING and see GODS FAITHFULLNESS to ALL who believe.
HIS steadfastness through all the ups and downs and mans failures.
ENDURING and PROGRESIVELY revealing THE PLAN OF THE AGES and all those men and women who repent and seek not what is right in their own eyes but that which is right in HIS. and seek FIRST the kingdom of God and HIS rightousness will find that God HAS NOT CHANGED even from the beginning UNTILL THIS DAY and FOREVER MORE.
AND IS MORE CERTAIN the rising of the sun. and more sure than the ground we stand on.

For He is the same yesterday today and forever.

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by geralduk

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil canot be a symbol of the LAW.
For the LAW gives knowledge or convicts of SIN .
Paul also said that the law was given for the lawless or unrightous.

First there was a tree and it was SPECIFIC and planted in the midst of the garden.
Whatever 'type' of tree it was it cannot be a SYMBOL.
For if you accept that it was a symbol then you must also accept that the tree of LIFE was one as well.
This clearly is not the case as can be seen in the book of revaltion.
One cannot partake of a symbol only of REALITY.

It is a tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil.

Yes of course it was an actually tree but it was absolutely a symbol of the law. The Law happened because of that tree, it was in effect its fruit.
I do not have time to explain further right now. I'm sorry, I would love to explain, but it is somewhat of a complex issue and I'm rather short on time. I will try to work something up and post it in the near future. I just wanted to drop you this note to acknowledge that I had seen your post and wasn't ignoring you.
Also I know your post was rather lengthy and that it took quite a while to type all that up and I do appreciate that fact. When I post again, I'll try to be more responsive!
In the mean time you must call 1-888-8ENYART and talk to them about getting The Plot by Bob Enyart. There is a chapter in that book that talks specifically about The Law vs. Grace and explains in great detail about the ministry of The Tree, the ministry of The Law, Grace, and why does the Bible revolve so much around Trees i.e. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil at the beginning of the Bible, Christ dieing on a tree (becoming a curse for us), the Law was nailed to a tree, and finally The Tree of Life in Heaven at the end of the Bible and lots more. If you are at all interested in this topic, you absolutely must read The Plot even if you disagree with the positions Bob has taken on this web site, you won't be disappointed in Bob's teaching on this subject in any respect.
Hope to correspond with you more soon!

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer


Knight, have you ever considered giving Bob his own smiley? I'd bet it would get a lot of use around here!

Hmmm.. what would a cult leader smilie look like? :think:

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by Poly

Hmmm.. what would a cult leader smilie look like? :think:

I don't know! :think:

I sure would like to find our though!

 

[MichaelEden]

Jesus is the tree of life

delivering us from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil


one tree causes death

one tree gives eternal life


one tree causes confusion, division, condemnation, suspicion, pain, guilt, shame, fear

one tree offers Truth, life, light, tolerance, acceptance, freedom, equality, understanding, unity, love


Michael111

 

[Clete]

Jesus is the tree of life - By His Grace we will be offered fruit from the Tree of Life.

delivering us from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil = delivering us from The Law


one tree gives eternal life = Grace

one tree causes death = The Law


one tree offers Truth, life, light, acceptance, freedom, equality, understanding, unity, love (I removed the word tolerance) = Grace

one tree causes confusion, division, condemnation, suspicion, pain, guilt, shame, fear = The Law


geralduk,

I responded to MichaelEden's post in this manner for your benefit.
Do you start to see now what I'm getting at with respect to The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil being symbolic of The Law?
They are the same; they have the same ministry; that being, a ministry of death. The one is simply an extension, a fulfillment of the other.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[geralduk]

Clete:

While I understand your thinking on it I do not agree with your line of reasoning.

Not to generate a 'vain debate' or simply for contentions sake.
But simply because though on the face of it it looks ok.
But for instance you say that the tree of life pertains to all the things you say of it.
Yet there is NO record of them eating of it.
and all the things you say of it they HAD ALREADY when they were CREATED.
They did not obtain them by eating of it.
For then God would have created them unsatisfactoraly.
You say is is the tree of eternal grace?
Then why were they BARRED from it ?
For in truth I as a sinner doing that which was right in my own eyes was in need of that grace and to which now |I have recived.
Yet if they then had sinned and were in need of that SAME grace as I then why then were they barred?
Yet If they had eaten of it as you sugest then they had (as you say) ETERNAL GRACE then how could they have FALLEN?
bUT SEEING THAT GOD after they had fallen had PROMISED ONE who would come by which men would be delivered from thier sin and would FIND THAT WHICH WAS LOST then that which was promised for the FUTURE was NOT for the present!
in that they were BARRED from it lest they LIVE FOREVER in their sin!
It is my contention that though they were given FREE access to the tree of life they NEVER GOT TO EAT OF IT because before they did so they ate of the tree of the knowldge of good and evil.

The best place to study the law is the book of ROMANS.
for it touches on its charcter and PURPOSE.
and PAUL also touches on these matetrs as well.
In the light of romans I cannot see how the tree of the knowldge of good and evil is the LAW or a symbol of it.

The two trees there fore are not grace and the law.


But are simply what THEY SAY THEY ARE.

The tree of LIFE being that ETERNAL UNCORUPTABLE LIFE.
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil being simply what it says.
But 'knowledge ' that comes too late and kills.

There LIFE was CORRUPTED by eating of the tree.

Because the "seed of the serpent" had been SOWN the FRUIT being DEATH.
and sin came into the world and death through sin.

It is NOT THE EATING of the tree we need to look at.
But HOW they CAME TO DO SO.and the PROCCESS which LED them to it.
For the LAW was not in operation.
The LAW does NOT bring a knowldge of GOOD but a "knowledge of SIN"
They ALREADY knew what was GOOD and what was EVIL.
iM REPEATING MYSELF.

But please look at ROMANS and then reconsider that tree in the light of it.

 

[Clete]

Geralduk,

It is my fault that you have misunderstood. I saw an opportunity to briefly express some of what I'm getting at and took it. I should not have, without having first laid the foundational work it is based upon.

I am going back over the material in preparation for a more detailed explanation of what I mean. For now just rest assured that I do not equate The Tree of Life with Grace. For the purposes of illustration it was useful to draw a correlation because of the way MichaelEden had worded his post but I understand why it caused more confusion that anything else.

When I post here again, I'll have a more complete explanation of the relationship between The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and The Law.

By the way, from here on out let's refer to 'The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil' as simply 'The Tree of Knowledge' or even 'ToK' either way its a lot easier to type!

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[the Sibbie]

Re: the bible = the tree of the knowledge of good and evil <> Jesus = the tree of life

Re: the bible = the tree of the knowledge of good and evil <> Jesus = the tree of life

Originally posted by MichaelEden
The kingdom of God is within us all. Not within the pages of a book containing the knowledge of evil.

Of course. God does not desire to live eternally with pages of a book. That is why the Body of Christ consists of His children.

I have recently shut it for good. I will not touch, nor taste of it again.

Because of Jesus Christ, I'm back in the land of the living. I've torn off my fig-leaf, and am returning to Eden. I am who God made me to be. The shame, guilt, and confusion is past-tense.



Thank You Jesus.

The Tree of Life = Jesus Christ.

Freedom. Liberation. Love.

Eat freely from this tree and be saved.

But you wouldn't know any of this (or at least very much of it) if it wasn't recorded in the Bible. Sure, other books/people could have recorded it, but they probably would have left out alot of detail. Without the Old Testament we might not understand why a blood sacrifice was required for our sin.

I don't understand why you go to such great lenghts to avoid it. Sure, alot of unpleasent events were recorded in it, but that doesn't mean you can't learn from it. Don't you think God would want you to diligently search His word to really understand Him and His mission better?

 

[geralduk]

I will not use the term tree of 'knowledge' for the simple reason is that it gives room for the devil in mens minds.
as it is a greek concept.

I would like some
coments to on what I have already written and where you might see any 'fault' in my reasoning.

For it is the 'argument' that convinces me that it was NOT the law.

 

[Clete]

geralduk,

You reasoning is flawed for several reasons some less severe than others, but primarily your argument is based on the idea that The Law only gives us a knowledge of what is evil and not what is good, this is not so.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and strength.

Love you neighbor as yourself.

These two alone sum up the whole law, both of which describe good behavior not evil.

Honor you Father and Mother.
This is another law that I thought of off the top of my head that describes good behavior.

The entire section of The Law that describes how criminals should be dealt with and how disputes should be settled are also sections of The Law that describe righteous behavior.

The Law definitely is not only a description of what is evil. It is in fact a reflection of God's righteous character. If you were to follow The Law exactly (which of course is not possible), then you would be, by definition, righteous.

I've just recently moved to a new home and I'm having a bit of trouble finding my material on this subject but I plan to do some serious searching this weekend for all of my books, when I find it I'll post something that will establish this in a more Biblical manner.

God Bless!

Resting in Him,
Clete


P.S. You said...

I will not use the term tree of 'knowledge' for the simple reason is that it gives room for the devil in mens minds.
as it is a greek concept.

Although I'm not sure where you got this idea, I won't argue the piont. If you like you can type out the entire name.
As for me, the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil will hence forth be refered to as the TTKGE.

 

[geralduk]

Thats fine.
The initials are ok for it.


My basis for the LAW as is stated in ROMANS.
IT WAS TO GIVE A KNOWLEDGE of sin.

In the keeping of it it you cannot inherit eternal life(see the young rich man)