ECT The ABCs of the salvation process

[Nick M]

Colossians 2

8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

 

[Interplanner]

ZachB,
Justification from the debt of sin is very different message from 'the forsaking of sin' and I hope you will get to enjoy it!

 

[Interplanner]

Colossians 2

8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Fantastic statement about the neo-Judaism Paul battled with all the time.

How does it relate to the debt of sin vs the ongoing pull toward sin?

 

[Nick M]

How does it relate to the debt of sin vs the ongoing pull toward sin?

You are complete in him. Paul couldn't be clearer. I'm not sure where your misunderstanding is in it. We are complete in him, there is no sin. The dead flesh is crucified, pay no mind to it. The carnal mind pays attention to the performance of the flesh.

 

[Interplanner]

the man in Rom 7 was a believer and sinned. Justification is needed just as much by the mature believer as the beginner. "There is no sin"? There certainly is, but there is no debt, no condemnation for those in Christ, Rom 8:1.

 

[Nick M]

Getting saved sure is tough. I don't think I can hack it.

Too bad it isn't based on doing some chin-ups.

 

[ZacharyB]

ZachB,
Justification from the debt of sin is very different message from 'the forsaking of sin' and I hope you will get to enjoy it!

Paul very clearly threatens ETERNAL DEATH to believers who choose to be slaves of sin!
3 times! ... in the span of 8 verses!
I hope you will get to read ROMANS 6 and enjoy all 3.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You insert "spiritual" death into the meaning

 

[ZacharyB]

ZB:
"Paul very clearly threatens ETERNAL DEATH
to believers who choose to be slaves of sin!
3 times! ... in the span of 8 verses!"

You insert "spiritual" death into the meaning

Yes, I do ...
because several other passages make it quite clear
that Paul is talking about eternal life and death,
so I drop Romans 6 into the big bag of anti-OSAS verses.

One really needs to approach The NT ...
with an OPEN mind to receive God's spiritual Truth,
instead of being CLOSED due to ... many possible reasons.

One really needs to RECONCILE ALL of the NT passages
in order to come to a realization of the Truth.
If they don't ALL fit together ...
one doesn't understand what the NT is saying!

God's elect heed the many dire warnings in the NT,
and walk the narrow path/road to eternal life.
True saving belief-faith produces
true love for Jesus and obedience to Him.

This is miraculously possible for these people (and others)
through God's free gift of grace (unmerited favor) by which
He imparts the seed of faith, which enables them to believe.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Yes, I do ...
because several other passages make it quite clear
that Paul is talking about eternal life and death,
so I drop Romans 6 into the big bag of anti-OSAS verses.

One really needs to approach The NT ...
with an OPEN mind to receive God's spiritual Truth,
instead of being CLOSED due to ... many possible reasons.

One really needs to RECONCILE ALL of the NT passages
in order to come to a realization of the Truth.
If they don't ALL fit together ...
one doesn't understand what the NT is saying!

God's elect heed the many dire warnings in the NT,
and walk the narrow path/road to eternal life.
True saving belief-faith produces
true love for Jesus and obedience to Him.

This is miraculously possible for these people (and others)
through God's free gift of grace (unmerited favor) by which
He imparts the seed of faith, which enables them to believe.

Emotional nonsense...God does not work according to your emotions He works according to His eternal counsels and decrees....it's not God's free gift of grace, it's God's gift of eternal life


Stop messing with God's word

 

[Cross Reference]

"And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you."
Luke 17:6 (KJV)

Hmm? I wonder why the disciples never asked for such faith that was required . . even as much as a grain of mustard seed, they did not possess, gifted or otherwise, yet they were His disciples? And then we have Peter to come on the scene to declare by his revelation who Jesus really was and later deny Him. Apparently, at best, he had insufficient faith as well. . . perhaps he just lost confidence in Jesus and God. Where'd the gift go?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Pre salvic and pre pentecost

 

[andyc]

Madsters don't actually know what repentance is. They assume it just means to be a aggrieved and sorry for an act of disobedience. Repentance is simply a change of attitude in a person who's heart has been enlightened. It's similar to when a person is married, and now has to take on the responsibility and accountability of being in a marriage union. You no longer do everything you want to do because there is another person to consider, and considering that person causes a change of lifestyle. Christians are now in Christ, and considering this union motivates a lifestyle alteration in the desire to be pleasing. It's not a "have to", it's a "want to". Just like a husband should want to be pleasing to his wife.

 

[ZacharyB]

Madsters don't actually know what repentance is. They assume it just means to be a aggrieved and sorry for an act of disobedience. Repentance is simply a change of attitude in a person who's heart has been enlightened. It's similar to when a person is married, and now has to take on the responsibility and accountability of being in a marriage union. You no longer do everything you want to do because there is another person to consider, and considering that person causes a change of lifestyle. Christians are now in Christ, and considering this union motivates a lifestyle alteration in the desire to be pleasing. It's not a "have to", it's a "want to". Just like a husband should want to be pleasing to his wife.

YES ... it's all about having the correct heart attitude.
Those who really love Jesus really desire to please Him.
This is revealed in their doing their utmost to be obedient to His commands.
This is part and parcel of walking on that narrow path/road unto eternal life.

 

[iamaberean]

Easy believism denies the need for knowledge. The truth is, we can only grow spiritually by obtaining more knowledge of God. One should not assume that any man, including their pastor, can get them into heaven.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

 

[Cross Reference]

YES ... it's all about having the correct heart attitude.
Those who really love Jesus really desire to please Him.
This is revealed in their doing their utmost to be obedient to His commands.
This is part and parcel of walking on that narrow path/road unto eternal life.

The adoption process leading unto, son-ship. By obedience is the heavenly 'perspective' received. No compromise here or :loser: .

 

[ZacharyB]

The adoption process leading unto, son-ship. By obedience is the heavenly 'perspective' received. No compromise here or :loser: .

What happens to believers who do not go along with the sanctifying process unto son-ship?
IMO, we're talking about the wheat vs the tares, the sheep vs the goats, etc.
The tares and the goats get thrown into the fire where there is mucho gnashing of da teeths.

Does all of this (above and below) tie in with our favorite, Matthew 7:21-23,
where some believers are told that Jesus didn't know them?

Matthew 13:
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet
that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind,
48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down
and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away.
49 So it will be at the end of the age.
The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

The net is not gathering all humans.
It is gathering believers ... some prove to be true, and some false.

The good, the just --- righteous in God's eyes --- acceptable
The bad, the wicked --- unrighteous in God's eyes --- unacceptable

 

[Cross Reference]

What happens to believers who do not go along with the sanctifying process unto son-ship?
IMO, we're talking about the wheat vs the tares, the sheep vs the goats, etc.
The tares and the goats get thrown into the fire where there is mucho gnashing of da teeths.

Does all of this (above and below) tie in with our favorite, Matthew 7:21-23,
where some believers are told that Jesus didn't know them?

No. Two things here. One "affirmational" [monegernistic provision]. The other "aspirational" [synerginistic, obedience on my part]. One that says I am legally "In Christ". The other, I live my life as "unto the Lord". One that I had nothing to do with except believe and receive. The other, I have everything to do with that for all the right 'perspiration' will reap the benefits as a son. I don't believe you will find in the Bible where the two terms are used interchangeably. [Work through it to see that to be most correct]

That is very brief summation of what I have learned from the scriptures for which the Bible has become a new book TO me.. . . for which I am called a heretic.

Definition: Son = a family member. One in which intimacy with Father is enjoyed.
and shared!
. . . . . Just saved? One who might barely make it due to disobedience. Kingdom cannot be entered into for intimacy with God. . . as in, "I never knew you". cf Rev 7:14 KJV.

Think on this as a determining factor when "working out our salvation in fear and trembling":

“Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

Sortta "intimates" the need for an "abiding vision". . .

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Easy believism denies the need for knowledge. The truth is, we can only grow spiritually by obtaining more knowledge of God. One should not assume that any man, including their pastor, can get them into heaven.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

Was Peter writing to members of the House of Israel or to the Gentiles? Context IS everything.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

IMB obviously doesn't know how to "Rightly Divide" the word of God.