Teen Murders Newborn Out of Fear of Losing Boyfriend as Baby Resembled Ex

[Stripe]

If you're trying to conflate all abortions with infanticide then no it's not illegal.

Every abortion is the murder of a human being.

You're on the side of the girl in OP; it's just that you become squeamish when the act is not done within a set of regulations you imagine make babies not people.

 

[Quetzal]

By request, I decided to stop back by and give my .02.

So for those of you who support abortion on demand, tell me why this girl shouldn't be celebrated for not wanting to be forced to be a mamma?

My opinion on this is currently in flux, but I will give it my best shot. When you frame it as an action taken "on demand", you are right... but, there is more to it than that. The law says abortion is legal up to viability of the fetus, which is 24 weeks, I believe. Anything after that goes against the viability of the fetus and is not acceptable, I agree with that idea. So, to answer your question, that is why she is not celebrated. She ended life after the child was born and she did so for very selfish reasons.

If she would have just found a local PP, the same thing would have resulted, so whats the difference here?

It is different because I do not subscribe to the claim that PP killed infants after they were born. Substantial evidence does not exist (to my knowledge) to the contrary.

 

[Angel4Truth]

By request, I decided to stop back by and give my .02.


My opinion on this is currently in flux, but I will give it my best shot. When you frame it as an action taken "on demand", you are right... but, there is more to it than that. The law says abortion is legal up to viability of the fetus, which is 24 weeks, I believe. Anything after that goes against the viability of the fetus and is not acceptable, I agree with that idea. So, to answer your question, that is why she is not celebrated. She ended life after the child was born and she did so for very selfish reasons.

My father lived, when his mother tried to cause herself to abort, he was 22 weeks.

It is different because I do not subscribe to the claim that PP killed infants after they were born. Substantial evidence does not exist (to my knowledge) to the contrary.

Then you need to research the facts.

This should be a good start:

Marc Thiessen: Planned Parenthood defending infanticide

 

[Quetzal]

My father lived, when his mother tried to cause herself to abort, he was 22 weeks.

I will be honest, I think it needs to be a shorter period. I do believe 24 weeks is a too long (unless there is a life threatening complication, but that is a minority and a different topic all together)

Then you need to research the facts.

This should be a good start:

Marc Thiessen: Planned Parenthood defending infanticide

I read the article and let's talk about a few things. First, let's remember this is an opinion article. It has quite a few sources missing. Doesn't mean it should be dismissed, just missing pieces to the puzzle.

I do believe that if there is an abortion attempt and the child is born alive on its own power, it should get medical care. So, that's that and I think we agree there.

There is one part from the article that stuck out to me, which I do have a problem with.

The fact that Planned Parenthood aggressively lobbies against legislation requiring medical care for such children is appalling.

Anyone have a source or reference to this?

 

[Angel4Truth]

I will be honest, I think it needs to be a shorter period. I do believe 24 weeks is a too long (unless there is a life threatening complication, but that is a minority and a different topic all together)


I read the article and let's talk about a few things. First, let's remember this is an opinion article. It has quite a few sources missing. Doesn't mean it should be dismissed, just missing pieces to the puzzle.

I do believe that if there is an abortion attempt and the child is born alive on its own power, it should get medical care. So, that's that and I think we agree there.

There is one part from the article that stuck out to me, which I do have a problem with.


Anyone have a source or reference to this?

Here is one: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...-argues-right-post-birth-abortion_712198.html

 

[Quetzal]

Here is one: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...-argues-right-post-birth-abortion_712198.html

If that is the case, as it is stated in the article, I would agree with Boyd. If the abortion is a failure and the fetus is born, alive, it deserves medical treatment.

 

[Angel4Truth]

If that is the case, as it is stated in the article, I would agree with Boyd. If the abortion is a failure and the fetus is born, alive, it deserves medical treatment.

Whats the difference though in failing to kill it in the womb, vs killing it outside it?

Why is one ok with you and the other not?

 

[Quetzal]

Whats the difference though in failing to kill it in the womb, vs killing it outside it?

Why is one ok with you and the other not?

For me, it has to do with time and the fetus' ability to survive outside of the mother. There is no question that at 10 weeks (for example) a fetus cannot survive outside the womb.

 

[Angel4Truth]

For me, it has to do with time and the fetus' ability to survive outside of the mother. There is no question that at 10 weeks (for example) a fetus cannot survive outside the womb.

Then it doesn't become a baby to you, until it can live outside of the mother?

What about this, say a man attacks and causes a woman to miscarry, should he be liable for harming the baby?

 

[Quetzal]

Then it doesn't become a baby to you, until it can live outside of the mother?

I think that's a fair statement. Of course, it is not fool proof because... where do you draw the line? That is my current dilemma in my head.

What about this, say a man attacks and causes a woman to miscarry, should he be liable for harming the baby?

Oh wow, never seen this question before. I have no idea. I would need to think on it for awhile. I don't suppose there are any cases that we can look at for examples, are there?

 

[Angel4Truth]

I think that's a fair statement. Of course, it is not fool proof because... where do you draw the line? That is my current dilemma in my head.


Oh wow, never seen this question before. I have no idea. I would need to think on it for awhile. I don't suppose there are any cases that we can look at for examples, are there?

Lots of them actually, and its even written in many states laws that causing the death is the death of a person regardless of viability and at any stage of pregnancy and actionable under the law.

Fetal Homicide state laws.

So this appears that its a baby only when wanted doesnt it?

 

[Quetzal]

Lots of them actually, and its even written in many states laws that causing the death is the death of a person regardless of viability and at any stage of pregnancy and actionable under the law.

Fetal Homicide state laws.

So this appears that its a baby only when wanted doesnt it?

YAY sources! :thumb:

Man, I am having a tough time with this one. I have two scenarios in my mind. One is a woman is assaulted very early in the pregnancy (under ~10 weeks) and has a miscarriage. The other is a woman who is clearly pregnant, ready to pop and the same thing occurs. My opinion is not very consistent because in the second scenario, heck yeah, throw the book at him. In the other one I am a bit more hesitant. I will think about it some more as the day goes on.

 

[bybee]

YAY sources! :thumb:

Man, I am having a tough time with this one. I have two scenarios in my mind. One is a woman is assaulted very early in the pregnancy (under ~10 weeks) and has a miscarriage. The other is a woman who is clearly pregnant, ready to pop and the same thing occurs. My opinion is not very consistent because in the second scenario, heck yeah, throw the book at him. In the other one I am a bit more hesitant. I will think about it some more as the day goes on.

Think about the love that pregnant woman has for her yet to be born child. Think about the planning and preparation by both expectant parents and their families.
I have brought five children into the world. The minute I felt the fluttering's of life, that is at about four months, I felt intensely bonded to the child.
We are all variations on that theme. I suppose.

 

[Quetzal]

Think about the love that pregnant woman has for her yet to be born child. Think about the planning and preparation by both expectant parents and their families.
I have brought five children into the world. The minute I felt the fluttering's of life, that is at about four months, I felt intensely bonded to the child.
We are all variations on that theme. I suppose.

Good points, let me explain my position a bit further. Don't misunderstand, if a guy assaults a woman, that guy is a scumbag. But, if it is not apparent that the woman he assaults is pregnant (it's early, no obvious physical features yet), and she has a miscarriage, should he be held responsible? He didn't know. In comparison, if someone is 4 weeks out from their delivery date and he assaults her, there is no excuse. He knows good and well there could be other consequences.

Both acts are horrible, but in one instance the assailant knows shes is pregnant and in the other he doesn't. Not sure how much of a difference that would make.

 

[Stripe]

Evolutionists struggle when things are too small to identify.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Good points, let me explain my position a bit further. Don't misunderstand, if a guy assaults a woman, that guy is a scumbag. But, if it is not apparent that the woman he assaults is pregnant (it's early, no obvious physical features yet), and she has a miscarriage, should he be held responsible? He didn't know. In comparison, if someone is 4 weeks out from their delivery date and he assaults her, there is no excuse. He knows good and well there could be other consequences.

Both acts are horrible, but in one instance the assailant knows shes is pregnant and in the other he doesn't. Not sure how much of a difference that would make.

Not knowing who all ones actions will effect, is no defense.

If a drunk driver kills a pregnant woman, is he less guilty if she is early on vs later on, no way he knows shes pregnant and most likely didnt know he just killed a she.

His criminal action had unintended consequences. Same would apply to a man who assaults a pregnant woman, whether he knew she was pregnant or not.

 

[Nick M]

There's no excuse for infanticide.

Then why do you excuse Obama?

At issue is Obama’s opposition to Illinois legislation in 2001, 2002 and 2003 that would have defined any aborted fetus that showed signs of life as a "born alive infant" entitled to legal protection, even if doctors believe it could not survive.

Obama opposed the 2001 and 2002 "born alive" bills as backdoor attacks on a woman’s legal right to abortion, but he says he would have been "fully in support" of a similar federal bill that President Bush had signed in 2002, because it contained protections for Roe v. Wade.

So much for "vote republican"

 

[shagster01]

Not knowing who all ones actions will effect, is no defense.

If a drunk driver kills a pregnant woman, is he less guilty if she is early on vs later on, no way he knows shes pregnant and most likely didnt know he just killed a she.

His criminal action had unintended consequences. Same would apply to a man who assaults a pregnant woman, whether he knew she was pregnant or not.

To stay consistant, I suppose if a woman drank a few drinks one night, goes home and gets pregnant, we must call her out for being drunk will carrying a baby, right? If life technically starts at conception, then there are a lot of moms that need to be punnished for intoxication while pregnant.