Supreme Court: Marriage

[The Horn]

If Tim Wildmon doesn't like same sex marriage he shouldn't marry another man . Who is forcing him to do this ? "Redefining marriage ? Was granting voting rights to blacks and women in the past "redefining voting rights ?" No .
There were a lot of people in America who were just as opposed to allowing blacks to serve in the military , vote and marry whites in the past , and to allowing women to vote etc .
They claimed this would bring the "wrath of God down on America " and cause all kinds of catastrophes to happen . But nothing ever happened . Did allowing blacks and women to vote interfere with the voting rights of white males ? No !
All of this is nothing but wishful thinking . "Protecting children ?" There is absolutely in evidence that being raised by gay parents is in any way harmful to children , will put them at risk of being molested or "make them gay " , as long as they are good parent,s which most of them are .
We already have a generation of young adults in America who have been raised by gay parents, and they have turned out to be perfectly well adjusted . If you are raised by gay parents but are born heterosexual yourself, this will not make you gay , because sexual preference is inborn, not chosen . Likewise, if you have straight parents but are gay , you will still be gay .
Gay children are born every day to straight parents .

 

[Stripe]

Homos procreate by molesting boys.

 

[The Horn]

Striper , "Homos procreate by molesting boys ?" Give me a break ! First of all, being gay does not mean you are automatically going to be a pedophile. The vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual.
Your average pedophile is a married man , often with children, who has an uncontrollable urge to molest boys . The infamous coach Jerry Sandusky fits this profile .
And there are heterosexual men who molest and even rape little girls, or teenage ones . Does this mean ALL heterosexual men are like this ?
And there is no such thing as "gay recruitment ", any more than there is "recruitment " into being left -handed . Gays are BORN that way , the same as left-handed people. No one can make a child become gay, male or female . Many adults were molested as children but did not "turn gay ".
Striper, get a brain, get an education and get life !

 

[Stripe]

To be a liberal you have to believe that homos have no control over who they have sex with, but trannies can choose to be the opposite gender.

 

[The Barbarian]

What do american atheist think about marriage and what does it do for them?

The Barna Research Group, an evangelical Christian organization that does surveys and research to better understand what Christians believe and how they behave, studied divorce rates in America in 1999 and found surprising evidence that divorce is far lower among atheists than among conservative Christians - exactly the opposite of what they were probably expecting.

11% of all American adults are divorced
25% of all American adults have had at least one divorce
27% of born-again Christians have had at least one divorce
24% of all non-born-again Christians have been divorced
21% of atheists have been divorced
21% of Catholics and Lutherans have been divorced
24% of Mormons have been divorced
25% of mainstream Protestants have been divorced
29% of Baptists have been divorced
24% of nondenominational, independent Protestants have been divorced
27% of people in the South and Midwest have been divorced
26% of people in the West have been divorced
19% of people in the Northwest and Northeast have been divorced

The highest divorce rates are in the Bible Belt: "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama, and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in the frequency of divorce...the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average" of 4.2/1000 people. Nine states in the Northeast (Connecticut, Maine, New Hampshire, New York, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Rhode Island, New Jersey, and Maryland) have the lowest divorce rates, averaging just 3.5/1000 people.

Barna isn't the only group to arrive at these numbers. Other researchers have also found that conservative Protestants get divorced more often than other groups, even more often than "mainline" Protestants. The fact that atheists and agnostics divorce less often than other religious groups was, however, surprising to many. Some have simply refused to believe it.
https://www.learnreligions.com/divorce-rates-for-atheists-248494

 

[Lon]

The Barna Research Group, an evangelical Christian organization that does surveys and research to better understand what Christians believe and how they behave, studied divorce rates in America in 1999 and found surprising evidence that divorce is far lower among atheists than among conservative Christians - exactly the opposite of what they were probably expecting.

11% of all American adults are divorced
25% of all American adults have had at least one divorce
27% of born-again Christians have had at least one divorce
24% of all non-born-again Christians have been divorced
21% of atheists have been divorced
21% of Catholics and Lutherans have been divorced
24% of Mormons have been divorced
25% of mainstream Protestants have been divorced
29% of Baptists have been divorced
24% of nondenominational, independent Protestants have been divorced
27% of people in the South and Midwest have been divorced
26% of people in the West have been divorced
19% of people in the Northwest and Northeast have been divorced

The highest divorce rates are in the Bible Belt: "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama, and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in the frequency of divorce...the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average" of 4.2/1000 people. Nine states in the Northeast (Connecticut, Maine, New Hampshire, New York, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Rhode Island, New Jersey, and Maryland) have the lowest divorce rates, averaging just 3.5/1000 people.

Barna isn't the only group to arrive at these numbers. Other researchers have also found that conservative Protestants get divorced more often than other groups, even more often than "mainline" Protestants. The fact that atheists and agnostics divorce less often than other religious groups was, however, surprising to many. Some have simply refused to believe it.
https://www.learnreligions.com/divorce-rates-for-atheists-248494

These have to be carefully weighed. Many nonChristians don't believe in marriage, some choosing to live together and some never staying in any committed relationship. Such makes it difficult to make sense of the numbers by any direct comparison because the comparisons aren't equitable. We need to be very very careful about portraying any statistics. While I appreciate Barna, I'm convinced interpretation of their data is not a finished job. It simply doesn't give the whole record and often given without any interpretative data at all. Barna tends to see the glass half-full. I'm not sure they always get the bigger picture.

 

[The Barbarian]

While I appreciate Barna, I'm convinced interpretation of their data is not a finished job. It simply doesn't give the whole record and often given without any interpretative data at all. Barna tends to see the glass half-full. I'm not sure they always get the bigger picture.

If it was just non-Christians, I'd tend to agree with you. But evangelicals divorce more often than other Christians, too.

 

[Lon]

If it was just non-Christians, I'd tend to agree with you. But evangelicals divorce more often than other Christians, too.

Try not to marginalize a whole group of people, that marginalizes them even further for other reasons. The Lord was more long-suffering with the ignorant and the poor. Try to be on the same page as He. The evangelical is the one who gets them from the highways and the byways and the rescue missions. I'm not sure all the reasons why this has been true. Again, we have to really be careful with analysis of data. At times, it can make us falsely snobby, secure, and/or prejudice. I think that's why Samuel Clemmens thought statistics were worse than condemn-able lies.

 

[The Barbarian]

Try not to marginalize a whole group of people, that marginalizes them even further for other reasons. The Lord was more long-suffering with the ignorant and the poor. Try to be on the same page as He. The evangelical is the one who gets them from the highways and the byways and the rescue missions. I'm not sure all the reasons why this has been true. Again, we have to really be careful with analysis of data. At times, it can make us falsely snobby, secure, and/or prejudice. I think that's why Samuel Clemmens thought statistics were worse than condemn-able lies.

I think God would want us to reflect on the fact that atheists are at least as good at keeping their marriages together as we are.

 

[Lon]

I think God would want us to reflect on the fact that atheists are at least as good at keeping their marriages together as we are.

:nono: You and I belong to more mainline groups that are doing better. We do have to be careful with statistics. I'd also suggest going to the data and weighing it better than I believe Barna Group does. Their cup is often half-full in assessments. This website, for instance, claims that all divorce data is given from scant evidence and prediction. There is a lot of good data here that explains much of this, including what I've previously posted (young marriages, poorer, etc.). Among the protestant clergy, few ever divorce. One church I was in for 28 years and we saw just one divorce out of about 30 couples. This second, for 18 years, has a bit higher but nothing near 50% and I'd not say even beyond 20% but that's just a best guess. It gives me great pause. Of those families that have divorced, they all without exception have been new couples and young couples. Today, many of them do not attend church, but they would identify as 'protestant-evangelical.' Because of that, I'm more concerned that we are not keeping those who come to church nor are we ministering effectively to those after divorce because they are often shunned by the awkwardness (hard to reach out to one or the other without offending the other etc - not necessarily purposeful). For what its worth... -Lon

 

[The Barbarian]

Keep in mind, Barna is an evangelical Christian, himself. So I very much doubt if he's trying to make them look bad. And yes, poverty and lack of education do have something to do with numbers like this. I might ask Barna to consider another survey incorporating those controls.

It's just that some people (not you, Lon) are more willing to give evangelicals a break on those things, but get all wound up if anyone suggests that might be the case with other minorities.

 

[ok doser]

... get all wound up if anyone suggests that might be the case with other minorities.

other minorities like SDA's?

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
t's just that some people (not you, Lon) are more willing to give evangelicals a break on those things, but get all wound up if anyone suggests that might be the case with other minorities.
...
:chuckle:

 

[ok doser]

other minorities like SDA's?

:darwinsm:

:mock:barbie

 

[Stripe]

Barbarian is all wound up again.

 

[ok doser]

that does tend to happen with the senile :sigh:

 

[Stripe]

that does tend to happen with the senile :sigh:

I thought he was just a troll. :idunno:

One of life's great mysteries.

 

[ok doser]

that and lost socks

 

[Stripe]

that and lost socks

I've got another pair at home just like this one.

 

[Lon]

Keep in mind, Barna is an evangelical Christian, himself. So I very much doubt if he's trying to make them look bad. And yes, poverty and lack of education do have something to do with numbers like this. I might ask Barna to consider another survey incorporating those controls.

We just don't have enough information with Barna. How many were converted after divorce, for instance? I'm not sure Barna's data is ever this well researched. The Barna Group does do work with Gallup so he is reputable, but he isn't always as thorough and he definitely doesn't always interpret the data correctly. He doesn't ask these kinds of questions before his group reports.

It's just that some people (not you, Lon) are more willing to give evangelicals a break on those things, but get all wound up if anyone suggests that might be the case with other minorities.

The Southern Baptist, for instance, who report a very low divorce rate. I think the like I gave (religioustolerance.com) isn't particularly biased one way or the other but they did say a few of these were much to small of sample sizes to be accurate. On top of that, it doesn't tell us if these divorcees were before or after their conversions. It may well be that these were 'unbelievers' by group before (or after) rather than 'evangelical' the whole tenor of their identification. R-tolerance also said that Barna simply asked about identity. That might be, but Barna generally asks how often they attend church, for example.